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From: Wu Fengguang <fengguang.wu@intel.com>
To: Vivek Goyal <vgoyal@redhat.com>
Cc: Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
	"linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Jan Kara <jack@suse.cz>, Christoph Hellwig <hch@lst.de>,
	Dave Chinner <david@fromorbit.com>,
	Greg Thelen <gthelen@google.com>,
	Minchan Kim <minchan.kim@gmail.com>,
	Andrea Righi <arighi@develer.com>, linux-mm <linux-mm@kvack.org>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 2/5] writeback: dirty position control
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 16:55:26 +0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20110816085526.GB19970@localhost> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20110810214057.GA6576@redhat.com>

Hi Vivek,

Sorry it made such a big confusion to you. I hope Peter's 3rd order
polynomial abstraction in v9 can clarify the concepts a lot.

As for the old global control line

                       origin - dirty
           pos_ratio = --------------           (1)
                       origin - goal

where

        origin = 4 * thresh                     (2)

effectively decides the slope of the line. The use of @limit in code

        origin = max(4 * thresh, limit)         (3)

is merely to safeguard the rare case that (2) might result in negative
pos_ratio in (1).

I have another patch to add a "brake" area immediately below @limit
that will scale pos_ratio down to 0. However that's no longer
necessary with the 3rd order polynomial solution. 

Note that @limit will normally be equal to @thresh except in the rare
case that @thresh is suddenly knocked down and @limit is taking time
to follow it.

Thanks,
Fengguang

> Hi Fengguang,
> 
> Ok, so just trying to understand this pos_ratio little better.
> 
> You have following basic formula.
> 
>                      origin - dirty
>          pos_ratio = --------------
>                      origin - goal
> 
> Terminology is very confusing and following is my understanding. 
> 
> - setpoint == goal
> 
>   setpoint is the point where we would like our number of dirty pages to
>   be and at this point pos_ratio = 1. For global dirty this number seems
>   to be (thresh - thresh / DIRTY_SCOPE) 
> 
> - thresh
>   dirty page threshold calculated from dirty_ratio (Certain percentage of
>   total memory).
> 
> - Origin (seems to be equivalent of limit)
> 
>   This seems to be the reference point/limit we don't want to cross and
>   distance from this limit basically decides the pos_ratio. Closer we
>   are to limit, lower the pos_ratio and further we are higher the
>   pos_ratio.
> 
> So threshold is just a number which helps us determine goal and limit.
> 
> goal = thresh - thresh / DIRTY_SCOPE
> limit = 4*thresh
> 
> So goal is where we want to be and we start throttling the task more as
> we move away goal and approach limit. We keep the limit high enough
> so that (origin-dirty) does not become negative entity.
> 
> So we do expect to cross "thresh" otherwise thresh itself could have
> served as limit?
> 
> If my understanding is right, then can we get rid of terms "setpoint" and
> "origin". Would it be easier to understand the things if we just talk
> in terms of "goal" and "limit" and how these are derived from "thresh".
> 
> 	thresh == soft limit
> 	limit == 4*thresh (hard limit)
> 	goal = thresh - thresh / DIRTY_SCOPE (where we want system to
> 						be in steady state).
>                      limit - dirty
>          pos_ratio = --------------
>                      limit - goal
> 
> Thanks
> Vivek

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Wu Fengguang <fengguang.wu@intel.com>
To: Vivek Goyal <vgoyal@redhat.com>
Cc: Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
	"linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Jan Kara <jack@suse.cz>, Christoph Hellwig <hch@lst.de>,
	Dave Chinner <david@fromorbit.com>,
	Greg Thelen <gthelen@google.com>,
	Minchan Kim <minchan.kim@gmail.com>,
	Andrea Righi <arighi@develer.com>, linux-mm <linux-mm@kvack.org>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 2/5] writeback: dirty position control
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 16:55:26 +0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20110816085526.GB19970@localhost> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20110810214057.GA6576@redhat.com>

Hi Vivek,

Sorry it made such a big confusion to you. I hope Peter's 3rd order
polynomial abstraction in v9 can clarify the concepts a lot.

As for the old global control line

                       origin - dirty
           pos_ratio = --------------           (1)
                       origin - goal

where

        origin = 4 * thresh                     (2)

effectively decides the slope of the line. The use of @limit in code

        origin = max(4 * thresh, limit)         (3)

is merely to safeguard the rare case that (2) might result in negative
pos_ratio in (1).

I have another patch to add a "brake" area immediately below @limit
that will scale pos_ratio down to 0. However that's no longer
necessary with the 3rd order polynomial solution. 

Note that @limit will normally be equal to @thresh except in the rare
case that @thresh is suddenly knocked down and @limit is taking time
to follow it.

Thanks,
Fengguang

> Hi Fengguang,
> 
> Ok, so just trying to understand this pos_ratio little better.
> 
> You have following basic formula.
> 
>                      origin - dirty
>          pos_ratio = --------------
>                      origin - goal
> 
> Terminology is very confusing and following is my understanding. 
> 
> - setpoint == goal
> 
>   setpoint is the point where we would like our number of dirty pages to
>   be and at this point pos_ratio = 1. For global dirty this number seems
>   to be (thresh - thresh / DIRTY_SCOPE) 
> 
> - thresh
>   dirty page threshold calculated from dirty_ratio (Certain percentage of
>   total memory).
> 
> - Origin (seems to be equivalent of limit)
> 
>   This seems to be the reference point/limit we don't want to cross and
>   distance from this limit basically decides the pos_ratio. Closer we
>   are to limit, lower the pos_ratio and further we are higher the
>   pos_ratio.
> 
> So threshold is just a number which helps us determine goal and limit.
> 
> goal = thresh - thresh / DIRTY_SCOPE
> limit = 4*thresh
> 
> So goal is where we want to be and we start throttling the task more as
> we move away goal and approach limit. We keep the limit high enough
> so that (origin-dirty) does not become negative entity.
> 
> So we do expect to cross "thresh" otherwise thresh itself could have
> served as limit?
> 
> If my understanding is right, then can we get rid of terms "setpoint" and
> "origin". Would it be easier to understand the things if we just talk
> in terms of "goal" and "limit" and how these are derived from "thresh".
> 
> 	thresh == soft limit
> 	limit == 4*thresh (hard limit)
> 	goal = thresh - thresh / DIRTY_SCOPE (where we want system to
> 						be in steady state).
>                      limit - dirty
>          pos_ratio = --------------
>                      limit - goal
> 
> Thanks
> Vivek

--
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  reply	other threads:[~2011-08-16  8:55 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 305+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2011-08-06  8:44 [PATCH 0/5] IO-less dirty throttling v8 Wu Fengguang
2011-08-06  8:44 ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-06  8:44 ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-06  8:44 ` [PATCH 1/5] writeback: account per-bdi accumulated dirtied pages Wu Fengguang
2011-08-06  8:44   ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-06  8:44   ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-06  8:44 ` [PATCH 2/5] writeback: dirty position control Wu Fengguang
2011-08-06  8:44   ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-06  8:44   ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-08 13:46   ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-08 13:46     ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-08 13:46     ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-08 14:11     ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-08 14:11       ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-08 14:31       ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-08 14:31         ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-08 14:31         ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-08 22:47         ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-08 22:47           ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-09  9:31           ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-09  9:31             ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-09  9:31             ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-10 12:28             ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-10 12:28               ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-08 14:41       ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-08 14:41         ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-08 14:41         ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-08 23:05         ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-08 23:05           ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-09 10:32           ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-09 10:32             ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-09 10:32             ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-09 17:20           ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-09 17:20             ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-09 17:20             ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-10 22:34             ` Jan Kara
2011-08-10 22:34               ` Jan Kara
2011-08-11  2:29               ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-11  2:29                 ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-11 11:14                 ` Jan Kara
2011-08-11 11:14                   ` Jan Kara
2011-08-16  8:35                   ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-16  8:35                     ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-12 13:19             ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-12 13:19               ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-10 21:40           ` Vivek Goyal
2011-08-10 21:40             ` Vivek Goyal
2011-08-16  8:55             ` Wu Fengguang [this message]
2011-08-16  8:55               ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-11 22:56           ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-11 22:56             ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-11 22:56             ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-12  2:43             ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-12  2:43               ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-12  3:18               ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-12  5:45               ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-12  5:45                 ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-12  9:45                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-12  9:45                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-12  9:45                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-12 11:07                   ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-12 11:07                     ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-12 12:17                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-12 12:17                       ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-12 12:17                       ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-12  9:47               ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-12  9:47                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-12  9:47                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-12 11:11                 ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-12 11:11                   ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-12 12:54           ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-12 12:54             ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-12 12:54             ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-12 12:59             ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-12 12:59               ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-12 13:08               ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-12 13:08                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-12 13:08                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-12 13:04           ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-12 13:04             ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-12 13:04             ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-12 14:20             ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-12 14:20               ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-22 15:38               ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-22 15:38                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-22 15:38                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-23  3:40                 ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-23  3:40                   ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-23 10:01                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-23 10:01                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-23 10:01                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-23 14:15                     ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-23 14:15                       ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-23 17:47                       ` Vivek Goyal
2011-08-23 17:47                         ` Vivek Goyal
2011-08-24  0:12                         ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-24  0:12                           ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-24 16:12                           ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-24 16:12                             ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-26  0:18                             ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-26  0:18                               ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-26  9:04                               ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-26  9:04                                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-26 10:04                                 ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-26 10:04                                   ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-26 10:42                                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-26 10:42                                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-26 10:52                                     ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-26 10:52                                       ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-26 11:26                                   ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-26 12:11                                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-26 12:11                                       ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-26 12:20                                       ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-26 12:20                                         ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-26 13:13                                         ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-26 13:18                                           ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-26 13:18                                             ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-26 13:24                                             ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-26 13:24                                               ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-24 18:00                           ` Vivek Goyal
2011-08-24 18:00                             ` Vivek Goyal
2011-08-25  3:19                             ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-25  3:19                               ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-25 22:20                               ` Vivek Goyal
2011-08-25 22:20                                 ` Vivek Goyal
2011-08-26  1:56                                 ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-26  1:56                                   ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-26  8:56                                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-26  8:56                                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-26  9:53                                     ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-26  9:53                                       ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-29 13:12                             ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-29 13:12                               ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-29 13:37                               ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-29 13:37                                 ` Wu Fengguang
2011-09-02 12:16                                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-09-02 12:16                                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-09-06 12:40                                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-09-06 12:40                                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-24 15:57                       ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-24 15:57                         ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-24 15:57                         ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-25  5:30                         ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-25  5:30                           ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-23 14:36                     ` Vivek Goyal
2011-08-23 14:36                       ` Vivek Goyal
2011-08-09  2:08   ` Vivek Goyal
2011-08-09  2:08     ` Vivek Goyal
2011-08-16  8:59     ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-16  8:59       ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-06  8:44 ` [PATCH 3/5] writeback: dirty rate control Wu Fengguang
2011-08-06  8:44   ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-06  8:44   ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-09 14:54   ` Vivek Goyal
2011-08-09 14:54     ` Vivek Goyal
2011-08-11  3:42     ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-11  3:42       ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-09 14:57   ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-09 14:57     ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-09 14:57     ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-10 11:07     ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-10 11:07       ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-10 16:17       ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-10 16:17         ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-10 16:17         ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-15 14:08         ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-15 14:08           ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-09 15:50   ` Vivek Goyal
2011-08-09 15:50     ` Vivek Goyal
2011-08-09 16:16     ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-09 16:16       ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-09 16:16       ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-09 16:19       ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-09 16:19         ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-09 16:19         ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-10 14:07         ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-10 14:07           ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-10 14:00       ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-10 14:00         ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-10 17:10         ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-10 17:10           ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-15 14:11           ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-15 14:11             ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-09 16:56   ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-09 16:56     ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-09 16:56     ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-10 14:10     ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-09 17:02   ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-09 17:02     ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-09 17:02     ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-10 14:15     ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-10 14:15       ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-06  8:44 ` [PATCH 4/5] writeback: per task dirty rate limit Wu Fengguang
2011-08-06  8:44   ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-06  8:44   ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-06 14:35   ` Andrea Righi
2011-08-06 14:35     ` Andrea Righi
2011-08-07  6:19     ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-07  6:19       ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-08 13:47   ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-08 13:47     ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-08 13:47     ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-08 14:21     ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-08 14:21       ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-08 23:32       ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-08 23:32         ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-08 14:23     ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-08 14:23       ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-08 14:26       ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-08 14:26         ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-08 14:26         ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-08 22:38         ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-08 22:38           ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-13 16:28       ` Andrea Righi
2011-08-13 16:28         ` Andrea Righi
2011-08-15 14:21         ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-15 14:26           ` Andrea Righi
2011-08-15 14:26             ` Andrea Righi
2011-08-09 17:46   ` Vivek Goyal
2011-08-09 17:46     ` Vivek Goyal
2011-08-10  3:29     ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-10  3:29       ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-10 18:18       ` Vivek Goyal
2011-08-10 18:18         ` Vivek Goyal
2011-08-11  0:55         ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-11  0:55           ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-09 18:35   ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-09 18:35     ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-09 18:35     ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-10  3:40     ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-10  3:40       ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-10 10:25       ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-10 10:25         ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-10 10:25         ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-10 11:13         ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-10 11:13           ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-06  8:44 ` [PATCH 5/5] writeback: IO-less balance_dirty_pages() Wu Fengguang
2011-08-06  8:44   ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-06  8:44   ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-06 14:48   ` Andrea Righi
2011-08-06 14:48     ` Andrea Righi
2011-08-06 14:48     ` Andrea Righi
2011-08-07  6:44     ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-07  6:44       ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-07  6:44       ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-06 16:46   ` Andrea Righi
2011-08-06 16:46     ` Andrea Righi
2011-08-07  7:18     ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-07  9:50       ` Andrea Righi
2011-08-07  9:50         ` Andrea Righi
2011-08-09 18:15   ` Vivek Goyal
2011-08-09 18:15     ` Vivek Goyal
2011-08-09 18:41     ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-09 18:41       ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-09 18:41       ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-10  3:22       ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-10  3:22         ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-10  3:26     ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-10  3:26       ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-09 19:16   ` Vivek Goyal
2011-08-09 19:16     ` Vivek Goyal
2011-08-10  4:33     ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-09  2:01 ` [PATCH 0/5] IO-less dirty throttling v8 Vivek Goyal
2011-08-09  2:01   ` Vivek Goyal
2011-08-09  5:55   ` Dave Chinner
2011-08-09  5:55     ` Dave Chinner
2011-08-09 14:04     ` Vivek Goyal
2011-08-09 14:04       ` Vivek Goyal
2011-08-10  7:41       ` Greg Thelen
2011-08-10  7:41         ` Greg Thelen
2011-08-10  7:41         ` Greg Thelen
2011-08-10 18:40         ` Vivek Goyal
2011-08-10 18:40           ` Vivek Goyal
2011-08-10 18:40           ` Vivek Goyal
2011-08-11  3:21   ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-11  3:21     ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-11 20:42     ` Vivek Goyal
2011-08-11 20:42       ` Vivek Goyal
2011-08-11 21:00       ` Vivek Goyal
2011-08-11 21:00         ` Vivek Goyal
2011-08-16  2:20 [PATCH 0/5] IO-less dirty throttling v9 Wu Fengguang
2011-08-16  2:20 ` [PATCH 2/5] writeback: dirty position control Wu Fengguang
2011-08-16  2:20   ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-16  2:20   ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-16 19:41   ` Jan Kara
2011-08-16 19:41     ` Jan Kara
2011-08-17 13:23     ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-17 13:49       ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-17 13:49         ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-17 20:24       ` Jan Kara
2011-08-17 20:24         ` Jan Kara
2011-08-18  4:18         ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-18  4:18           ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-18  4:41           ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-18  4:41             ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-18 19:16           ` Jan Kara
2011-08-18 19:16             ` Jan Kara
2011-08-24  3:16         ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-24  3:16           ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-19  2:53   ` Vivek Goyal
2011-08-19  2:53     ` Vivek Goyal
2011-08-19  3:25     ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-19  3:25       ` Wu Fengguang
     [not found] <CAFdhcLRKvfqBnXCXLwq-Qe1eNAGC-8XJ3BtHpQKzaa3RhHyp6A@mail.gmail.com>
2011-08-17  6:40 ` David Horner
2011-08-17 12:03   ` Jan Kara
2011-08-17 12:35     ` Wu Fengguang

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