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From: Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com>
To: Olof Johansson <olof@lixom.net>
Cc: Grant Likely <grant.likely@secretlab.ca>,
	"devicetree@vger.kernel.org" <devicetree@vger.kernel.org>,
	Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>,
	"linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org"
	<linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org>
Subject: Re: ACPI vs DT at runtime
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2013 11:35:57 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20131119113557.GI5914@e106331-lin.cambridge.arm.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20131119113015.GH5914@e106331-lin.cambridge.arm.com>

Hi,

> > > That
> > > sounds like an arcane board file equivalent, and is counter to the
> > > entire reason for using UEFI and ACPI -- having a well-defined
> > > (excluding particular driver bindings, and I'm not arguing well-defined
> > > means nice) stable standard that allows the kernel to boot on an
> > > arbitrary platform without requiring arbitrary platform-specific code
> > > everywhere in the boot path.
> > >
> > > It might not be pretty, and it will certainly require a lot of work, but
> > > I'd prefer it at least for a semblance of uniformity.
> >
> > That is a red herring -- that booting standard has _nothing_ to do with
> > ACPI. Once you've got a standard that is well-defined enough like that,
> > you no longer need the runtime portions of ACPI to deal with it. You
> > can just hardcode it. You need a way to probe _which_ type of standard
> > is used, but from there on out you can assume that things are the same
> > way.
> 
> The UEFI spec pulls in portions of ACPI. I do not know the full extent
> of the interaction between the two, but I know that they are not
> completely decoupled. As you have pointed out we are not experienced
> with ACPI or UEFI, so I don't think we can make statements that one is
> perfectly fine without the other.

Given Leif's comments it seems that they are decoupled sufficiently to
be considered separately.

Apologies for adding to the confusion here.

Mark.

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: mark.rutland@arm.com (Mark Rutland)
To: linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org
Subject: ACPI vs DT at runtime
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2013 11:35:57 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20131119113557.GI5914@e106331-lin.cambridge.arm.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20131119113015.GH5914@e106331-lin.cambridge.arm.com>

Hi,

> > > That
> > > sounds like an arcane board file equivalent, and is counter to the
> > > entire reason for using UEFI and ACPI -- having a well-defined
> > > (excluding particular driver bindings, and I'm not arguing well-defined
> > > means nice) stable standard that allows the kernel to boot on an
> > > arbitrary platform without requiring arbitrary platform-specific code
> > > everywhere in the boot path.
> > >
> > > It might not be pretty, and it will certainly require a lot of work, but
> > > I'd prefer it at least for a semblance of uniformity.
> >
> > That is a red herring -- that booting standard has _nothing_ to do with
> > ACPI. Once you've got a standard that is well-defined enough like that,
> > you no longer need the runtime portions of ACPI to deal with it. You
> > can just hardcode it. You need a way to probe _which_ type of standard
> > is used, but from there on out you can assume that things are the same
> > way.
> 
> The UEFI spec pulls in portions of ACPI. I do not know the full extent
> of the interaction between the two, but I know that they are not
> completely decoupled. As you have pointed out we are not experienced
> with ACPI or UEFI, so I don't think we can make statements that one is
> perfectly fine without the other.

Given Leif's comments it seems that they are decoupled sufficiently to
be considered separately.

Apologies for adding to the confusion here.

Mark.

  reply	other threads:[~2013-11-19 11:35 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 186+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2013-11-15  1:44 ACPI vs DT at runtime Olof Johansson
2013-11-15  1:44 ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-15  9:57 ` Mark Rutland
2013-11-15  9:57   ` Mark Rutland
     [not found]   ` <20131115175241. GB27174@quad.lixom.net>
     [not found]   ` <20131115095717.GC1709-NuALmloUBlrZROr8t4l/smS4ubULX0JqMm0uRHvK7Nw@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-15 17:52     ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-15 17:52       ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-15 18:13       ` David Goodenough
2013-11-21 16:15         ` Grant Likely
2013-11-18 17:47       ` Jon Masters
2013-11-18 17:47         ` Jon Masters
     [not found]       ` <20131115175241.GB27174-O5ziIzlqnXUVNXGz7ipsyg@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-15 18:08         ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2013-11-15 18:08           ` Russell King - ARM Linux
     [not found]           ` <20131115180832.GR16735-l+eeeJia6m9vn6HldHNs0ANdhmdF6hFW@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-15 18:42             ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-15 18:42               ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-15 19:56             ` Arnd Bergmann
2013-11-15 19:56               ` Arnd Bergmann
     [not found]               ` <201311152056.47846.arnd-r2nGTMty4D4@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-15 23:21                 ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2013-11-15 23:21                   ` Russell King - ARM Linux
     [not found]                   ` <20131115232109.GT16735-l+eeeJia6m9vn6HldHNs0ANdhmdF6hFW@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-18 15:05                     ` Arnd Bergmann
2013-11-18 15:05                       ` Arnd Bergmann
     [not found]                       ` <201311181605.37300.arnd-r2nGTMty4D4@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-18 15:19                         ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2013-11-18 15:19                           ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2013-11-18 15:46                           ` Arnd Bergmann
2013-11-18 15:46                             ` Arnd Bergmann
2013-11-21 16:10                         ` Grant Likely
2013-11-21 16:10                           ` Grant Likely
     [not found]                           ` <20131121161037.C528CC406A3-WNowdnHR2B42iJbIjFUEsiwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-21 18:26                             ` Arnd Bergmann
2013-11-21 18:26                               ` Arnd Bergmann
2013-11-21 19:40                               ` Mark Brown
2013-11-21 19:40                                 ` Mark Brown
     [not found]                       ` <20131118151900.GF16735@ n2100.arm.linux.org.uk>
     [not found]                         ` <20131118151900.GF16735-l+eeeJia6m9vn6HldHNs0ANdhmdF6hFW@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-21 16:11                           ` Grant Likely
2013-11-21 16:11                             ` Grant Likely
2013-11-21 16:00                     ` Grant Likely
2013-11-21 16:00                       ` Grant Likely
2013-11-19 11:30         ` Mark Rutland
2013-11-19 11:30           ` Mark Rutland
2013-11-19 11:35           ` Mark Rutland [this message]
2013-11-19 11:35             ` Mark Rutland
     [not found]             ` <20131119113557.GI5914-NuALmloUBlrZROr8t4l/smS4ubULX0JqMm0uRHvK7Nw@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-19 11:51               ` Leif Lindholm
2013-11-19 11:51                 ` Leif Lindholm
     [not found]           ` <20131119113015.GH5914-NuALmloUBlrZROr8t4l/smS4ubULX0JqMm0uRHvK7Nw@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-19 11:57             ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2013-11-19 11:57               ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2013-11-19 13:56             ` Stefano Stabellini
2013-11-19 13:56               ` Stefano Stabellini
2013-11-19 14:38               ` Mark Rutland
2013-11-19 14:38                 ` Mark Rutland
     [not found]                 ` <20131119143840.GN5914-NuALmloUBlrZROr8t4l/smS4ubULX0JqMm0uRHvK7Nw@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-19 14:59                   ` Leif Lindholm
2013-11-19 14:59                     ` Leif Lindholm
2013-11-19 18:23                   ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-19 18:23                     ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-19 14:05             ` Arnd Bergmann
2013-11-19 14:05               ` Arnd Bergmann
2013-11-19 15:21               ` Mark Rutland
2013-11-19 15:21                 ` Mark Rutland
     [not found]                 ` <20131119152157.GO5914-NuALmloUBlrZROr8t4l/smS4ubULX0JqMm0uRHvK7Nw@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-19 16:19                   ` Arnd Bergmann
2013-11-19 16:19                     ` Arnd Bergmann
2013-11-19 18:34                   ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-19 18:34                     ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-19 19:06                   ` Tom Rini
2013-11-19 19:06                     ` Tom Rini
2013-11-19 18:19             ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-19 18:19               ` Olof Johansson
     [not found]               ` <20131119181959.GA20967-O5ziIzlqnXUVNXGz7ipsyg@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-21 16:37                 ` Grant Likely
2013-11-21 16:37                   ` Grant Likely
2013-11-21 16:29             ` Grant Likely
2013-11-21 16:29               ` Grant Likely
     [not found]               ` <20131121170122. GB22960@srcf.ucam.org>
     [not found]                 ` <20131121170122.GB22960-1xO5oi07KQx4cg9Nei1l7Q@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-21 18:38                   ` Grant Likely
2013-11-21 18:38                     ` Grant Likely
     [not found]               ` <20131121162944.F087FC406A3-WNowdnHR2B42iJbIjFUEsiwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-21 17:01                 ` Matthew Garrett
2013-11-21 17:01                   ` Matthew Garrett
2013-11-21 17:58                 ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-21 17:58                   ` Olof Johansson
     [not found]                   ` <20131121175822.GA9590-O5ziIzlqnXUVNXGz7ipsyg@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-21 18:19                     ` Matthew Garrett
2013-11-21 18:19                       ` Matthew Garrett
2013-11-21 18:33                     ` Arnd Bergmann
2013-11-21 18:33                       ` Arnd Bergmann
2013-11-21 18:54                     ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2013-11-21 18:54                       ` Russell King - ARM Linux
     [not found]                       ` <20131121185408.GX16735-l+eeeJia6m9vn6HldHNs0ANdhmdF6hFW@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-21 18:59                         ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-21 18:59                           ` Olof Johansson
     [not found]                           ` <CAOesGMgzUSMDy99XojipfRd5OM88UhfbCYO0aoc5m-Q8Fwnddg-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-21 19:01                             ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2013-11-21 19:01                               ` Russell King - ARM Linux
     [not found]                               ` <20131121190126.GZ16735-l+eeeJia6m9vn6HldHNs0ANdhmdF6hFW@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-21 19:31                                 ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-21 19:31                                   ` Olof Johansson
     [not found]                       ` < CAOesGMgzUSMDy99XojipfRd5OM88UhfbCYO0aoc5m-Q8Fwnddg@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                         ` < 20131121190126.GZ16735@n2100.arm.linux.org.uk>
     [not found]                           ` < CAOesGMgxGq1Zmo+Dq-Rmy2F02-=12yUzB0AKn35yK2j3CacNRQ@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                             ` <CAOesGMgxGq1Zmo+Dq-Rmy2F02-=12yUzB0AKn35yK2j3CacNRQ-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-21 20:44                               ` Grant Likely
2013-11-21 20:44                                 ` Grant Likely
2013-11-21 18:53                 ` Mark Brown
2013-11-21 18:53                   ` Mark Brown
2013-11-15 18:28     ` Jason Gunthorpe
2013-11-15 18:28       ` Jason Gunthorpe
     [not found]       ` <20131115182826.GB14920-ePGOBjL8dl3ta4EC/59zMFaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-15 18:57         ` Arnd Bergmann
2013-11-15 18:57           ` Arnd Bergmann
2013-11-20 13:49     ` Grant Likely
2013-11-20 13:49       ` Grant Likely
     [not found]       ` <20131120134942.95DBFC4079D-WNowdnHR2B42iJbIjFUEsiwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-20 17:43         ` Stefano Stabellini
2013-11-20 17:43           ` Stefano Stabellini
     [not found]           ` <alpine.DEB.2.02.1311201737410.3198-7Z66fg9igcxYtxbxJUhB2Dgeux46jI+i@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-20 17:47             ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-20 17:47               ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-18  5:19   ` Jon Masters
2013-11-18  5:26     ` Jon Masters
     [not found]       ` <5289A4F3.5040203-Zp4isUonpHBD60Wz+7aTrA@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-18 19:25         ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-18 19:25           ` Olof Johansson
     [not found]           ` <20131118192552.GD5886-O5ziIzlqnXUVNXGz7ipsyg@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-18 20:43             ` Jon Masters
2013-11-18 20:43               ` Jon Masters
     [not found]               ` <528A7BFD.4020303-Zp4isUonpHBD60Wz+7aTrA@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-18 21:25                 ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-18 21:25                   ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-18  7:22     ` Richard Cochran
2013-11-18 13:55     ` Stefano Stabellini
2013-11-18 15:00     ` Mark Brown
     [not found]       ` <20131118150052.GC24408-GFdadSzt00ze9xe1eoZjHA@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-18 19:13         ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-18 19:13           ` Olof Johansson
     [not found]           ` <20131118191336.GB5886-O5ziIzlqnXUVNXGz7ipsyg@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-19  9:12             ` Richard Cochran
2013-11-19  9:12               ` Richard Cochran
2013-11-19 18:48               ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-19 18:48                 ` Olof Johansson
     [not found]                 ` <20131119184827.GD20967-O5ziIzlqnXUVNXGz7ipsyg@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-20  6:40                   ` Richard Cochran
2013-11-20  6:40                     ` Richard Cochran
2013-11-21 18:16                     ` Grant Likely
2013-11-21 18:16                       ` Grant Likely
2013-11-21 19:21                     ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2013-11-21 19:21                       ` Russell King - ARM Linux
     [not found]                     ` < 20131121192136.GA16735@n2100.arm.linux.org.uk>
     [not found]                       ` <20131121192136.GA16735-l+eeeJia6m9vn6HldHNs0ANdhmdF6hFW@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-21 20:47                         ` Grant Likely
2013-11-21 20:47                           ` Grant Likely
     [not found]                           ` <20131121204704.E4487C40753-WNowdnHR2B42iJbIjFUEsiwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-22 11:43                             ` Catalin Marinas
2013-11-22 11:43                               ` Catalin Marinas
     [not found]                               ` <CAHkRjk5MstjD9JFk+co8k89i8geJBmSF6uObhGdmWSe0GJHo8g-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-22 12:00                                 ` Pantelis Antoniou
2013-11-22 12:00                                   ` Pantelis Antoniou
     [not found]                                   ` <97692EF2-013E-4E4B-BC16-E0915D67EFEC-wVdstyuyKrO8r51toPun2/C9HSW9iNxf@public.gmane.org>
2014-05-05  7:06                                     ` Alexander Holler
2014-05-05  7:06                                       ` Alexander Holler
     [not found]                                       ` <53673866.9000105-SXC+2es9fhnfWeYVQQPykw@public.gmane.org>
2014-05-05 14:41                                         ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-05-05 14:41                                           ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-05-05 15:29                                           ` Alexander Holler
2014-05-05 15:29                                             ` Alexander Holler
     [not found]                                             ` <5367AE6B.3010105-SXC+2es9fhnfWeYVQQPykw@public.gmane.org>
2014-05-05 17:29                                               ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-05-05 17:29                                                 ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-05-06 15:37                                             ` Grant Likely
2014-05-06 15:37                                               ` Grant Likely
2014-05-06 15:27                                       ` Grant Likely
2014-05-06 15:27                                         ` Grant Likely
     [not found]                                         ` <20140506152725.E5B90C40959-WNowdnHR2B42iJbIjFUEsiwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
2014-05-06 16:32                                           ` Olof Johansson
2014-05-06 16:32                                             ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-18 15:28     ` Rob Herring
     [not found]     ` <5289A356.4060004-Zp4isUonpHBD60Wz+7aTrA@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-18 19:09       ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-18 19:09         ` Olof Johansson
     [not found]         ` <20131118190929.GA5886-O5ziIzlqnXUVNXGz7ipsyg@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-18 20:54           ` Jon Masters
2013-11-18 20:54             ` Jon Masters
     [not found]             ` <528A7EA0.9050101-Zp4isUonpHBD60Wz+7aTrA@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-18 21:50               ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-18 21:50                 ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-18 21:32           ` Grant Likely
2013-11-18 21:32             ` Grant Likely
2013-11-18 22:47             ` David Goodenough
2013-11-19 12:48               ` Arnd Bergmann
2013-11-19 12:48                 ` Arnd Bergmann
2013-11-19 13:34                 ` David Goodenough
2013-11-19 16:52                   ` Arnd Bergmann
2013-11-21 18:23               ` Grant Likely
2013-11-19 14:33     ` Grant Likely
     [not found] ` <CAOesGMjKeRb=fFJM0MabDihbEiCGM4EqW9D5i_6-RFxTnpB4Qw-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-15 20:58   ` Arnd Bergmann
2013-11-15 20:58     ` Arnd Bergmann
     [not found]     ` <201311152158.32644.arnd-r2nGTMty4D4@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-15 21:44       ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-15 21:44         ` Olof Johansson
     [not found]         ` <CAOesGMhkCn2zeJj_ZZAZu_wJya-4evWEqNHpVJEpjxzWHVWY3A-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-17 17:18           ` Stefano Stabellini
2013-11-17 17:18             ` Stefano Stabellini
     [not found]             ` <alpine.DEB.2.02.1311171705130.4714-7Z66fg9igcxYtxbxJUhB2Dgeux46jI+i@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-17 18:10               ` Arnd Bergmann
2013-11-17 18:10                 ` Arnd Bergmann
     [not found]                 ` < CAOesGMiYyOcvr3Aqs-p8zc=XDwJM9NZtNxtxrTZssc6F=siZCw@mail.gmail.com>
2013-11-17 22:20                 ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-17 22:20                   ` Olof Johansson
     [not found]                   ` <CAOesGMiYyOcvr3Aqs-p8zc=XDwJM9NZtNxtxrTZssc6F=siZCw-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-18  8:45                     ` Arnd Bergmann
2013-11-18  8:45                       ` Arnd Bergmann
2013-11-18 17:33                       ` Jon Masters
2013-11-18 17:38                         ` Russell King - ARM Linux
     [not found]                         ` <528A4F5F.7080104-Zp4isUonpHBD60Wz+7aTrA@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-18 19:21                           ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-18 19:21                             ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-21 18:26                         ` Grant Likely
2013-11-18 15:04                 ` Mark Brown
2013-11-18 15:04                   ` Mark Brown
2013-11-18 15:10                   ` Arnd Bergmann
2013-11-18 15:10                     ` Arnd Bergmann
     [not found]                   ` < 201311181610.33105.arnd@arndb.de>
     [not found]                     ` <201311181610.33105.arnd-r2nGTMty4D4@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-18 21:38                       ` Grant Likely
2013-11-18 21:38                         ` Grant Likely
2013-11-18 23:25   ` Leif Lindholm
2013-11-18 23:25     ` Leif Lindholm
     [not found]     ` <20131118232536.GF1567-GZEopFhza0F985/tl1ce8aaDwS/vmuI7@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-18 23:29       ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-18 23:29         ` Olof Johansson
     [not found]         ` <CAOesGMh373ZsLzoGHJm+xV3uFVjh2CBSA8SXY4PA+VxL3a5W1w-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-18 23:34           ` Leif Lindholm
2013-11-18 23:34             ` Leif Lindholm

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