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From: Grant Likely <grant.likely-s3s/WqlpOiPyB63q8FvJNQ@public.gmane.org>
To: Olof Johansson <olof-nZhT3qVonbNeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>,
	Mark Rutland <mark.rutland-5wv7dgnIgG8@public.gmane.org>
Cc: "devicetree-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org"
	<devicetree-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org>,
	"linux-arm-kernel-IAPFreCvJWM7uuMidbF8XUB+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org"
	<linux-arm-kernel-IAPFreCvJWM7uuMidbF8XUB+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org>,
	Rob Herring <robherring2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>,
	Arnd Bergmann <arnd-r2nGTMty4D4@public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: ACPI vs DT at runtime
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2013 16:37:43 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20131121163743.E45BFC406A3@trevor.secretlab.ca> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20131119181959.GA20967-O5ziIzlqnXUVNXGz7ipsyg@public.gmane.org>

On Tue, 19 Nov 2013 10:19:59 -0800, Olof Johansson <olof-nZhT3qVonbNeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> I think we're getting bogged down by the hypothetical AML-in-DT case. We won't
> know if we want/need it until we see what kind of stuff vendors think they will
> need to do in AML. On x86 it's mostly used to abstract out per-board
> differences, not whole SoC behavior. It also depends on how much of their
> hardware differences the silicon vendors decide to punt to software to manage
> -- that's going to work a lot less well in this type of environment than it
> does on 32-bit today.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say flat out "no" to AML in DT.
AML in DT makes no sense to me. I've resisted any attempts to add a
bytecode to FDT. The whole model we've been working on with DT is
describe the hardware as competently as possible and expect device
drivers to bind on the platform to handle the fiddly bits. ACPI takes
the opposite approach and I don't want to go down the path of pushing
functionality out to the platform when using the DT infrastructure.

... That said, I'm not opposed to the ACPI and DT subsystems making use
of shared infrastructure wherever possible.

> > If a vendor does this, with a DTB that correctly describes their
> > hardware then I am not against it (and would prefer this case to mapping
> > from ACPI to DT). For that case we will also require a nailed-down boot
> > protocol that allows for either DTB or ACPI (only one at a time).
> 
> UEFI already allows this, as far as I know? Even if both are passed, we can
> easily make DT take precedence over ACPI, just like DT overrides ATAGs today.

Yes, there is no problem with a platform passing both DT and ACPI.

g.
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WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: grant.likely@secretlab.ca (Grant Likely)
To: linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org
Subject: ACPI vs DT at runtime
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2013 16:37:43 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20131121163743.E45BFC406A3@trevor.secretlab.ca> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20131119181959.GA20967@quad.lixom.net>

On Tue, 19 Nov 2013 10:19:59 -0800, Olof Johansson <olof@lixom.net> wrote:
> I think we're getting bogged down by the hypothetical AML-in-DT case. We won't
> know if we want/need it until we see what kind of stuff vendors think they will
> need to do in AML. On x86 it's mostly used to abstract out per-board
> differences, not whole SoC behavior. It also depends on how much of their
> hardware differences the silicon vendors decide to punt to software to manage
> -- that's going to work a lot less well in this type of environment than it
> does on 32-bit today.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say flat out "no" to AML in DT.
AML in DT makes no sense to me. I've resisted any attempts to add a
bytecode to FDT. The whole model we've been working on with DT is
describe the hardware as competently as possible and expect device
drivers to bind on the platform to handle the fiddly bits. ACPI takes
the opposite approach and I don't want to go down the path of pushing
functionality out to the platform when using the DT infrastructure.

... That said, I'm not opposed to the ACPI and DT subsystems making use
of shared infrastructure wherever possible.

> > If a vendor does this, with a DTB that correctly describes their
> > hardware then I am not against it (and would prefer this case to mapping
> > from ACPI to DT). For that case we will also require a nailed-down boot
> > protocol that allows for either DTB or ACPI (only one at a time).
> 
> UEFI already allows this, as far as I know? Even if both are passed, we can
> easily make DT take precedence over ACPI, just like DT overrides ATAGs today.

Yes, there is no problem with a platform passing both DT and ACPI.

g.

  parent reply	other threads:[~2013-11-21 16:37 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 186+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2013-11-15  1:44 ACPI vs DT at runtime Olof Johansson
2013-11-15  1:44 ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-15  9:57 ` Mark Rutland
2013-11-15  9:57   ` Mark Rutland
     [not found]   ` <20131115175241. GB27174@quad.lixom.net>
     [not found]   ` <20131115095717.GC1709-NuALmloUBlrZROr8t4l/smS4ubULX0JqMm0uRHvK7Nw@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-15 17:52     ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-15 17:52       ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-15 18:13       ` David Goodenough
2013-11-21 16:15         ` Grant Likely
2013-11-18 17:47       ` Jon Masters
2013-11-18 17:47         ` Jon Masters
     [not found]       ` <20131115175241.GB27174-O5ziIzlqnXUVNXGz7ipsyg@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-15 18:08         ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2013-11-15 18:08           ` Russell King - ARM Linux
     [not found]           ` <20131115180832.GR16735-l+eeeJia6m9vn6HldHNs0ANdhmdF6hFW@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-15 18:42             ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-15 18:42               ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-15 19:56             ` Arnd Bergmann
2013-11-15 19:56               ` Arnd Bergmann
     [not found]               ` <201311152056.47846.arnd-r2nGTMty4D4@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-15 23:21                 ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2013-11-15 23:21                   ` Russell King - ARM Linux
     [not found]                   ` <20131115232109.GT16735-l+eeeJia6m9vn6HldHNs0ANdhmdF6hFW@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-18 15:05                     ` Arnd Bergmann
2013-11-18 15:05                       ` Arnd Bergmann
     [not found]                       ` <201311181605.37300.arnd-r2nGTMty4D4@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-18 15:19                         ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2013-11-18 15:19                           ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2013-11-18 15:46                           ` Arnd Bergmann
2013-11-18 15:46                             ` Arnd Bergmann
2013-11-21 16:10                         ` Grant Likely
2013-11-21 16:10                           ` Grant Likely
     [not found]                           ` <20131121161037.C528CC406A3-WNowdnHR2B42iJbIjFUEsiwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-21 18:26                             ` Arnd Bergmann
2013-11-21 18:26                               ` Arnd Bergmann
2013-11-21 19:40                               ` Mark Brown
2013-11-21 19:40                                 ` Mark Brown
     [not found]                       ` <20131118151900.GF16735@ n2100.arm.linux.org.uk>
     [not found]                         ` <20131118151900.GF16735-l+eeeJia6m9vn6HldHNs0ANdhmdF6hFW@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-21 16:11                           ` Grant Likely
2013-11-21 16:11                             ` Grant Likely
2013-11-21 16:00                     ` Grant Likely
2013-11-21 16:00                       ` Grant Likely
2013-11-19 11:30         ` Mark Rutland
2013-11-19 11:30           ` Mark Rutland
2013-11-19 11:35           ` Mark Rutland
2013-11-19 11:35             ` Mark Rutland
     [not found]             ` <20131119113557.GI5914-NuALmloUBlrZROr8t4l/smS4ubULX0JqMm0uRHvK7Nw@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-19 11:51               ` Leif Lindholm
2013-11-19 11:51                 ` Leif Lindholm
     [not found]           ` <20131119113015.GH5914-NuALmloUBlrZROr8t4l/smS4ubULX0JqMm0uRHvK7Nw@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-19 11:57             ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2013-11-19 11:57               ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2013-11-19 13:56             ` Stefano Stabellini
2013-11-19 13:56               ` Stefano Stabellini
2013-11-19 14:38               ` Mark Rutland
2013-11-19 14:38                 ` Mark Rutland
     [not found]                 ` <20131119143840.GN5914-NuALmloUBlrZROr8t4l/smS4ubULX0JqMm0uRHvK7Nw@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-19 14:59                   ` Leif Lindholm
2013-11-19 14:59                     ` Leif Lindholm
2013-11-19 18:23                   ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-19 18:23                     ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-19 14:05             ` Arnd Bergmann
2013-11-19 14:05               ` Arnd Bergmann
2013-11-19 15:21               ` Mark Rutland
2013-11-19 15:21                 ` Mark Rutland
     [not found]                 ` <20131119152157.GO5914-NuALmloUBlrZROr8t4l/smS4ubULX0JqMm0uRHvK7Nw@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-19 16:19                   ` Arnd Bergmann
2013-11-19 16:19                     ` Arnd Bergmann
2013-11-19 18:34                   ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-19 18:34                     ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-19 19:06                   ` Tom Rini
2013-11-19 19:06                     ` Tom Rini
2013-11-19 18:19             ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-19 18:19               ` Olof Johansson
     [not found]               ` <20131119181959.GA20967-O5ziIzlqnXUVNXGz7ipsyg@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-21 16:37                 ` Grant Likely [this message]
2013-11-21 16:37                   ` Grant Likely
2013-11-21 16:29             ` Grant Likely
2013-11-21 16:29               ` Grant Likely
     [not found]               ` <20131121170122. GB22960@srcf.ucam.org>
     [not found]                 ` <20131121170122.GB22960-1xO5oi07KQx4cg9Nei1l7Q@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-21 18:38                   ` Grant Likely
2013-11-21 18:38                     ` Grant Likely
     [not found]               ` <20131121162944.F087FC406A3-WNowdnHR2B42iJbIjFUEsiwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-21 17:01                 ` Matthew Garrett
2013-11-21 17:01                   ` Matthew Garrett
2013-11-21 17:58                 ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-21 17:58                   ` Olof Johansson
     [not found]                   ` <20131121175822.GA9590-O5ziIzlqnXUVNXGz7ipsyg@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-21 18:19                     ` Matthew Garrett
2013-11-21 18:19                       ` Matthew Garrett
2013-11-21 18:33                     ` Arnd Bergmann
2013-11-21 18:33                       ` Arnd Bergmann
2013-11-21 18:54                     ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2013-11-21 18:54                       ` Russell King - ARM Linux
     [not found]                       ` <20131121185408.GX16735-l+eeeJia6m9vn6HldHNs0ANdhmdF6hFW@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-21 18:59                         ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-21 18:59                           ` Olof Johansson
     [not found]                           ` <CAOesGMgzUSMDy99XojipfRd5OM88UhfbCYO0aoc5m-Q8Fwnddg-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-21 19:01                             ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2013-11-21 19:01                               ` Russell King - ARM Linux
     [not found]                               ` <20131121190126.GZ16735-l+eeeJia6m9vn6HldHNs0ANdhmdF6hFW@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-21 19:31                                 ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-21 19:31                                   ` Olof Johansson
     [not found]                       ` < CAOesGMgzUSMDy99XojipfRd5OM88UhfbCYO0aoc5m-Q8Fwnddg@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                         ` < 20131121190126.GZ16735@n2100.arm.linux.org.uk>
     [not found]                           ` < CAOesGMgxGq1Zmo+Dq-Rmy2F02-=12yUzB0AKn35yK2j3CacNRQ@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                             ` <CAOesGMgxGq1Zmo+Dq-Rmy2F02-=12yUzB0AKn35yK2j3CacNRQ-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-21 20:44                               ` Grant Likely
2013-11-21 20:44                                 ` Grant Likely
2013-11-21 18:53                 ` Mark Brown
2013-11-21 18:53                   ` Mark Brown
2013-11-15 18:28     ` Jason Gunthorpe
2013-11-15 18:28       ` Jason Gunthorpe
     [not found]       ` <20131115182826.GB14920-ePGOBjL8dl3ta4EC/59zMFaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-15 18:57         ` Arnd Bergmann
2013-11-15 18:57           ` Arnd Bergmann
2013-11-20 13:49     ` Grant Likely
2013-11-20 13:49       ` Grant Likely
     [not found]       ` <20131120134942.95DBFC4079D-WNowdnHR2B42iJbIjFUEsiwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-20 17:43         ` Stefano Stabellini
2013-11-20 17:43           ` Stefano Stabellini
     [not found]           ` <alpine.DEB.2.02.1311201737410.3198-7Z66fg9igcxYtxbxJUhB2Dgeux46jI+i@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-20 17:47             ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-20 17:47               ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-18  5:19   ` Jon Masters
2013-11-18  5:26     ` Jon Masters
     [not found]       ` <5289A4F3.5040203-Zp4isUonpHBD60Wz+7aTrA@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-18 19:25         ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-18 19:25           ` Olof Johansson
     [not found]           ` <20131118192552.GD5886-O5ziIzlqnXUVNXGz7ipsyg@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-18 20:43             ` Jon Masters
2013-11-18 20:43               ` Jon Masters
     [not found]               ` <528A7BFD.4020303-Zp4isUonpHBD60Wz+7aTrA@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-18 21:25                 ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-18 21:25                   ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-18  7:22     ` Richard Cochran
2013-11-18 13:55     ` Stefano Stabellini
2013-11-18 15:00     ` Mark Brown
     [not found]       ` <20131118150052.GC24408-GFdadSzt00ze9xe1eoZjHA@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-18 19:13         ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-18 19:13           ` Olof Johansson
     [not found]           ` <20131118191336.GB5886-O5ziIzlqnXUVNXGz7ipsyg@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-19  9:12             ` Richard Cochran
2013-11-19  9:12               ` Richard Cochran
2013-11-19 18:48               ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-19 18:48                 ` Olof Johansson
     [not found]                 ` <20131119184827.GD20967-O5ziIzlqnXUVNXGz7ipsyg@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-20  6:40                   ` Richard Cochran
2013-11-20  6:40                     ` Richard Cochran
2013-11-21 18:16                     ` Grant Likely
2013-11-21 18:16                       ` Grant Likely
2013-11-21 19:21                     ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2013-11-21 19:21                       ` Russell King - ARM Linux
     [not found]                     ` < 20131121192136.GA16735@n2100.arm.linux.org.uk>
     [not found]                       ` <20131121192136.GA16735-l+eeeJia6m9vn6HldHNs0ANdhmdF6hFW@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-21 20:47                         ` Grant Likely
2013-11-21 20:47                           ` Grant Likely
     [not found]                           ` <20131121204704.E4487C40753-WNowdnHR2B42iJbIjFUEsiwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-22 11:43                             ` Catalin Marinas
2013-11-22 11:43                               ` Catalin Marinas
     [not found]                               ` <CAHkRjk5MstjD9JFk+co8k89i8geJBmSF6uObhGdmWSe0GJHo8g-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-22 12:00                                 ` Pantelis Antoniou
2013-11-22 12:00                                   ` Pantelis Antoniou
     [not found]                                   ` <97692EF2-013E-4E4B-BC16-E0915D67EFEC-wVdstyuyKrO8r51toPun2/C9HSW9iNxf@public.gmane.org>
2014-05-05  7:06                                     ` Alexander Holler
2014-05-05  7:06                                       ` Alexander Holler
     [not found]                                       ` <53673866.9000105-SXC+2es9fhnfWeYVQQPykw@public.gmane.org>
2014-05-05 14:41                                         ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-05-05 14:41                                           ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-05-05 15:29                                           ` Alexander Holler
2014-05-05 15:29                                             ` Alexander Holler
     [not found]                                             ` <5367AE6B.3010105-SXC+2es9fhnfWeYVQQPykw@public.gmane.org>
2014-05-05 17:29                                               ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-05-05 17:29                                                 ` Arnd Bergmann
2014-05-06 15:37                                             ` Grant Likely
2014-05-06 15:37                                               ` Grant Likely
2014-05-06 15:27                                       ` Grant Likely
2014-05-06 15:27                                         ` Grant Likely
     [not found]                                         ` <20140506152725.E5B90C40959-WNowdnHR2B42iJbIjFUEsiwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
2014-05-06 16:32                                           ` Olof Johansson
2014-05-06 16:32                                             ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-18 15:28     ` Rob Herring
     [not found]     ` <5289A356.4060004-Zp4isUonpHBD60Wz+7aTrA@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-18 19:09       ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-18 19:09         ` Olof Johansson
     [not found]         ` <20131118190929.GA5886-O5ziIzlqnXUVNXGz7ipsyg@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-18 20:54           ` Jon Masters
2013-11-18 20:54             ` Jon Masters
     [not found]             ` <528A7EA0.9050101-Zp4isUonpHBD60Wz+7aTrA@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-18 21:50               ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-18 21:50                 ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-18 21:32           ` Grant Likely
2013-11-18 21:32             ` Grant Likely
2013-11-18 22:47             ` David Goodenough
2013-11-19 12:48               ` Arnd Bergmann
2013-11-19 12:48                 ` Arnd Bergmann
2013-11-19 13:34                 ` David Goodenough
2013-11-19 16:52                   ` Arnd Bergmann
2013-11-21 18:23               ` Grant Likely
2013-11-19 14:33     ` Grant Likely
     [not found] ` <CAOesGMjKeRb=fFJM0MabDihbEiCGM4EqW9D5i_6-RFxTnpB4Qw-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-15 20:58   ` Arnd Bergmann
2013-11-15 20:58     ` Arnd Bergmann
     [not found]     ` <201311152158.32644.arnd-r2nGTMty4D4@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-15 21:44       ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-15 21:44         ` Olof Johansson
     [not found]         ` <CAOesGMhkCn2zeJj_ZZAZu_wJya-4evWEqNHpVJEpjxzWHVWY3A-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-17 17:18           ` Stefano Stabellini
2013-11-17 17:18             ` Stefano Stabellini
     [not found]             ` <alpine.DEB.2.02.1311171705130.4714-7Z66fg9igcxYtxbxJUhB2Dgeux46jI+i@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-17 18:10               ` Arnd Bergmann
2013-11-17 18:10                 ` Arnd Bergmann
     [not found]                 ` < CAOesGMiYyOcvr3Aqs-p8zc=XDwJM9NZtNxtxrTZssc6F=siZCw@mail.gmail.com>
2013-11-17 22:20                 ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-17 22:20                   ` Olof Johansson
     [not found]                   ` <CAOesGMiYyOcvr3Aqs-p8zc=XDwJM9NZtNxtxrTZssc6F=siZCw-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-18  8:45                     ` Arnd Bergmann
2013-11-18  8:45                       ` Arnd Bergmann
2013-11-18 17:33                       ` Jon Masters
2013-11-18 17:38                         ` Russell King - ARM Linux
     [not found]                         ` <528A4F5F.7080104-Zp4isUonpHBD60Wz+7aTrA@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-18 19:21                           ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-18 19:21                             ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-21 18:26                         ` Grant Likely
2013-11-18 15:04                 ` Mark Brown
2013-11-18 15:04                   ` Mark Brown
2013-11-18 15:10                   ` Arnd Bergmann
2013-11-18 15:10                     ` Arnd Bergmann
     [not found]                   ` < 201311181610.33105.arnd@arndb.de>
     [not found]                     ` <201311181610.33105.arnd-r2nGTMty4D4@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-18 21:38                       ` Grant Likely
2013-11-18 21:38                         ` Grant Likely
2013-11-18 23:25   ` Leif Lindholm
2013-11-18 23:25     ` Leif Lindholm
     [not found]     ` <20131118232536.GF1567-GZEopFhza0F985/tl1ce8aaDwS/vmuI7@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-18 23:29       ` Olof Johansson
2013-11-18 23:29         ` Olof Johansson
     [not found]         ` <CAOesGMh373ZsLzoGHJm+xV3uFVjh2CBSA8SXY4PA+VxL3a5W1w-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2013-11-18 23:34           ` Leif Lindholm
2013-11-18 23:34             ` Leif Lindholm

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