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From: One Thousand Gnomes <gnomes@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>
To: Matthew Garrett <matthew.garrett@nebula.com>
Cc: "linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"jmorris@namei.org" <jmorris@namei.org>,
	"keescook@chromium.org" <keescook@chromium.org>,
	"linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org" 
	<linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org>,
	"akpm@linux-foundation.org" <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	"hpa@zytor.com" <hpa@zytor.com>,
	"jwboyer@fedoraproject.org" <jwboyer@fedoraproject.org>,
	"linux-efi@vger.kernel.org" <linux-efi@vger.kernel.org>,
	"gregkh@linuxfoundation.org" <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: Trusted kernel patchset for Secure Boot lockdown
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 23:21:40 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20140313232140.03bdaac3@alan.etchedpixels.co.uk> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1394746248.27846.3.camel@x230>

On Thu, 13 Mar 2014 21:30:48 +0000
Matthew Garrett <matthew.garrett@nebula.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 2014-03-13 at 21:24 +0000, One Thousand Gnomes wrote:
> 
> > If I have CAP_SYS_RAWIO I can make arbitary ring 0 calls from userspace,
> > trivially and in a fashion well known and documented.
> 
> How?

You want a list... there are load of places all over the kernel that have
assumptions that RAWIO = safe from the boringly mundane like MSR access
to the more obscure driver "this is RAWIO trust the user" cases of which
there are plenty.

If you are going to do something "secure" then do it *right* otherwise
you are not actually implementing anything, just making fake security
noises.

SELinux required user space changes, fiddle with CAP_SYS_RAWIO will need
userspace changes IFF you want to run 'secure' mode. That I think is
acceptable.

You can even avoid the userspace issues with a small amount of checking.
If you don't want to touch capability sets then make the default
behaviour for capable(x) in fact be

	capable(x & ~secure_forbidden)

for a measured kernel and add a 

	capable_always()

for the cases you want to not break.

As for mem= and exactmap, it has nothing to do with /dev/mem and
everything to do with giving the kernel a memory map where some of the
space it thinks is RAM is in fact devices, rom, space etc. If the kernel
is given a false memory map it will misbehave. Exploitably - well given
the kind of things people have achieved in the past - quite possibly.

If you are not prepared to do the job right, then I don't think it
belongs upstream. Let's do it right, and if we have to tweak a few bits
of userspace to make them work in measured mode (but without breaking
anything in normal modes) then it's worth doing the job properly.

I don't think we need to break any userspace for "normal" mode to do
this. Userspace in measured mode is going to change anyway. It already
has just for things like module signing.

(As an aside you may also then want to think about whether you allow
measured userspace elements that secure_forbidden is considered to be 0
for so you can sign userspace apps that are allowed to do RAWIO)

Alan

  reply	other threads:[~2014-03-13 23:22 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 128+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2014-02-26 20:11 Trusted kernel patchset for Secure Boot lockdown Matthew Garrett
2014-02-26 20:11 ` [PATCH 01/12] Add support for indicating that the booted kernel is externally trusted Matthew Garrett
2014-02-27 19:02   ` Kees Cook
2014-02-27 19:02     ` Kees Cook
2014-03-31 14:49   ` Pavel Machek
2014-02-26 20:11 ` [PATCH 02/12] Enforce module signatures when trusted kernel is enabled Matthew Garrett
2014-02-26 20:11   ` Matthew Garrett
2014-02-26 20:11 ` [PATCH 03/12] PCI: Lock down BAR access when trusted_kernel is true Matthew Garrett
2014-02-26 20:11 ` [PATCH 04/12] x86: Lock down IO port " Matthew Garrett
2014-02-26 20:11 ` [PATCH 05/12] Restrict /dev/mem and /dev/kmem " Matthew Garrett
2014-02-26 20:11 ` [PATCH 06/12] acpi: Limit access to custom_method if " Matthew Garrett
2014-02-26 20:11 ` [PATCH 07/12] acpi: Ignore acpi_rsdp kernel parameter when " Matthew Garrett
2014-02-26 20:11 ` [PATCH 08/12] kexec: Disable at runtime if " Matthew Garrett
2014-02-26 20:11 ` [PATCH 09/12] uswsusp: Disable when " Matthew Garrett
2014-02-26 20:11   ` Matthew Garrett
2014-03-31 14:49   ` Pavel Machek
2014-02-26 20:11 ` [PATCH 10/12] x86: Restrict MSR access " Matthew Garrett
2014-02-26 20:11 ` [PATCH 11/12] asus-wmi: Restrict debugfs interface " Matthew Garrett
2014-02-26 20:11 ` [PATCH 12/12] Add option to automatically set trusted_kernel when in Secure Boot mode Matthew Garrett
2014-02-26 20:11   ` Matthew Garrett
2014-02-26 22:41   ` One Thousand Gnomes
2014-02-26 22:41     ` One Thousand Gnomes
2014-02-26 22:47     ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-02-26 22:48     ` Matthew Garrett
2014-02-26 22:48       ` Matthew Garrett
2014-02-27 18:48       ` Kees Cook
2014-02-27 18:48         ` Kees Cook
2014-02-26 21:11 ` Trusted kernel patchset for Secure Boot lockdown Kees Cook
2014-02-26 22:21   ` One Thousand Gnomes
2014-02-26 22:21     ` One Thousand Gnomes
2014-02-27  9:54     ` Alon Ziv
2014-03-19 17:42     ` Florian Weimer
2014-03-19 17:42       ` Florian Weimer
2014-02-27 18:04 ` Josh Boyer
2014-02-27 18:04   ` Josh Boyer
2014-02-27 19:07   ` Greg KH
2014-02-27 19:11     ` Josh Boyer
2014-02-27 19:11       ` Josh Boyer
2014-02-28 12:50       ` Josh Boyer
2014-02-28  3:03   ` James Morris
2014-02-28  4:52     ` Matthew Garrett
2014-02-28  4:52       ` Matthew Garrett
2014-03-13  5:01     ` Matthew Garrett
2014-03-13  5:01       ` Matthew Garrett
2014-03-13  6:22       ` Kees Cook
2014-03-13  6:22         ` Kees Cook
2014-03-13  9:33         ` James Morris
2014-03-13  9:33           ` James Morris
2014-03-13 10:12           ` One Thousand Gnomes
2014-03-13 10:12             ` One Thousand Gnomes
2014-03-13 15:54             ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-03-13 15:54               ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-03-13 15:59           ` Matthew Garrett
2014-03-13 15:59             ` Matthew Garrett
2014-03-13 21:24             ` One Thousand Gnomes
2014-03-13 21:24               ` One Thousand Gnomes
2014-03-13 21:28               ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-03-13 21:28                 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-03-13 21:32                 ` Matthew Garrett
2014-03-13 21:32                   ` Matthew Garrett
2014-03-13 21:30               ` Matthew Garrett
2014-03-13 21:30                 ` Matthew Garrett
2014-03-13 23:21                 ` One Thousand Gnomes [this message]
2014-03-13 23:21                   ` One Thousand Gnomes
2014-03-14  1:57                   ` Matthew Garrett
2014-03-14  1:57                     ` Matthew Garrett
2014-03-14 12:22                     ` One Thousand Gnomes
2014-03-14 12:22                       ` One Thousand Gnomes
2014-03-14 12:51                       ` Matthew Garrett
2014-03-14 12:51                         ` Matthew Garrett
2014-03-14 15:23                         ` Kees Cook
2014-03-14 15:23                           ` Kees Cook
2014-03-14 15:46                           ` Matthew Garrett
2014-03-14 15:46                             ` Matthew Garrett
2014-03-14 15:54                             ` Kees Cook
2014-03-14 15:54                               ` Kees Cook
2014-03-14 15:58                               ` Matthew Garrett
2014-03-14 15:58                                 ` Matthew Garrett
2014-03-14 16:28                           ` One Thousand Gnomes
2014-03-14 16:28                             ` One Thousand Gnomes
2014-03-14 17:06                         ` One Thousand Gnomes
2014-03-14 17:06                           ` One Thousand Gnomes
2014-03-14 18:11                           ` Matthew Garrett
2014-03-14 18:11                             ` Matthew Garrett
2014-03-14 19:24                             ` Matthew Garrett
2014-03-14 19:24                               ` Matthew Garrett
2014-03-14 20:37                               ` David Lang
2014-03-14 20:37                                 ` David Lang
2014-03-14 20:43                                 ` Matthew Garrett
2014-03-14 20:43                                   ` Matthew Garrett
2014-03-14 21:58                               ` One Thousand Gnomes
2014-03-14 21:58                                 ` One Thousand Gnomes
2014-03-14 22:04                                 ` Matthew Garrett
2014-03-14 22:04                                   ` Matthew Garrett
2014-03-14 21:48                             ` One Thousand Gnomes
2014-03-14 21:48                               ` One Thousand Gnomes
2014-03-14 21:56                               ` Matthew Garrett
2014-03-14 21:56                                 ` Matthew Garrett
2014-03-14 22:08                                 ` One Thousand Gnomes
2014-03-14 22:08                                   ` One Thousand Gnomes
2014-03-14 22:15                                   ` Matthew Garrett
2014-03-14 22:15                                     ` Matthew Garrett
2014-03-14 22:31                                     ` One Thousand Gnomes
2014-03-14 22:31                                       ` One Thousand Gnomes
2014-03-14 22:52                                       ` Matthew Garrett
2014-03-14 22:52                                         ` Matthew Garrett
2014-03-19 19:50                                       ` Kees Cook
2014-03-19 19:50                                         ` Kees Cook
2014-03-14 23:18                                   ` Theodore Ts'o
2014-03-14 23:18                                     ` Theodore Ts'o
2014-03-15  0:15                                     ` One Thousand Gnomes
2014-03-15  0:15                                       ` One Thousand Gnomes
2014-03-19 17:49                                     ` Florian Weimer
2014-03-19 17:49                                       ` Florian Weimer
2014-03-19 20:16                                     ` Kees Cook
2014-03-19 20:16                                       ` Kees Cook
2014-03-20 14:47                                       ` One Thousand Gnomes
2014-03-20 14:47                                         ` One Thousand Gnomes
2014-03-20 14:55                                       ` tytso
2014-03-20 14:55                                         ` tytso
2014-03-20 17:12                                         ` Matthew Garrett
2014-03-20 17:12                                           ` Matthew Garrett
2014-03-20 18:13                                           ` One Thousand Gnomes
2014-03-20 18:13                                             ` One Thousand Gnomes
2014-03-13 21:26             ` One Thousand Gnomes
2014-03-13 21:26               ` One Thousand Gnomes
2014-03-13 21:31               ` Matthew Garrett
2014-03-13 21:31                 ` Matthew Garrett

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