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From: Alan Cox <gnomes@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>
To: <Tim.Bird@sony.com>
Cc: mishi@linux.com, gregkh@linuxfoundation.org,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org
Subject: Re: [Ksummit-discuss] [PATCH 6/7] Code of Conduct: Change the contact email address
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2018 01:13:48 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20181021011348.564a3fe4@alans-desktop> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <ECADFF3FD767C149AD96A924E7EA6EAF80528627@USCULXMSG01.am.sony.com>

> > Data protection law, reporting laws in some
> > countries and the like mean that anyone expecting an incident to remain
> > confidential from the person it was reported against is living in
> > dreamland and are going to get a nasty shock.  
> 
> OK - you seem to be talking about keeping the incident and reporter
> confidential from the person reported against.
> Certainly the  person reported against has to have the incident
> identified to them, so that part is not confidential.  Many legal
> jurisdictions require that the accused can know their accuser.
> But these things come into play mostly when items have veered
> into legal territory.  Most violation reports are not in the territory.
> There's no legal requirement that the Code of Conduct committee
> tell someone who it was that said they were rude on the mailing list.

The 'who said' is generally safe (except from the it's in court case -
which is fine when that happens the legal process deals with it). The
other details are not so while someone accused of something might not
know who said it they can ask for what personal data (which would include
that email with names etc scrubbed).

You can possibly fight that in court of course, if you've got lots of
money and nothing better to do for six weeks.

> > You should also reserving the right to report serious incidents directly
> > to law enforcement. Unless of course you want to be forced to sit on
> > multiple reports of physical abuse from different people about
> > someone - unable to tell them about each others report, unable to prove
> > anything, and in twenty years time having to explain to the media why
> > nothing was done.  
> 
> The scope of the code of conduct basically means that it covers
> online interactions (communication via mailing list, git commits
> and Bugzilla).  

I don't see it specifically stating that 'If someone is offensive at a
kernel summit we are going to refuse to listen'

Seriously ?

Alan

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Alan Cox <gnomes@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>
To: <Tim.Bird@sony.com>
Cc: <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
	<ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org>, <mishi@linux.com>,
	<linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [Ksummit-discuss] [PATCH 6/7] Code of Conduct: Change the contact email address
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2018 01:13:48 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20181021011348.564a3fe4@alans-desktop> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <ECADFF3FD767C149AD96A924E7EA6EAF80528627@USCULXMSG01.am.sony.com>

> > Data protection law, reporting laws in some
> > countries and the like mean that anyone expecting an incident to remain
> > confidential from the person it was reported against is living in
> > dreamland and are going to get a nasty shock.  
> 
> OK - you seem to be talking about keeping the incident and reporter
> confidential from the person reported against.
> Certainly the  person reported against has to have the incident
> identified to them, so that part is not confidential.  Many legal
> jurisdictions require that the accused can know their accuser.
> But these things come into play mostly when items have veered
> into legal territory.  Most violation reports are not in the territory.
> There's no legal requirement that the Code of Conduct committee
> tell someone who it was that said they were rude on the mailing list.

The 'who said' is generally safe (except from the it's in court case -
which is fine when that happens the legal process deals with it). The
other details are not so while someone accused of something might not
know who said it they can ask for what personal data (which would include
that email with names etc scrubbed).

You can possibly fight that in court of course, if you've got lots of
money and nothing better to do for six weeks.

> > You should also reserving the right to report serious incidents directly
> > to law enforcement. Unless of course you want to be forced to sit on
> > multiple reports of physical abuse from different people about
> > someone - unable to tell them about each others report, unable to prove
> > anything, and in twenty years time having to explain to the media why
> > nothing was done.  
> 
> The scope of the code of conduct basically means that it covers
> online interactions (communication via mailing list, git commits
> and Bugzilla).  

I don't see it specifically stating that 'If someone is offensive at a
kernel summit we are going to refuse to listen'

Seriously ?

Alan

  parent reply	other threads:[~2018-10-21  0:13 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 177+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-10-20 13:49 [Ksummit-discuss] [PATCH 0/7] Code of Conduct: Fix some wording, and add an interpretation document Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-20 13:49 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-20 13:49 ` [Ksummit-discuss] [PATCH 1/7] Code of conduct: Fix wording around maintainers enforcing the code of conduct Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-20 13:49   ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-20 13:50 ` [Ksummit-discuss] [PATCH 2/7] Code of Conduct Interpretation: Add document explaining how the Code of Conduct is to be interpreted Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-20 13:50   ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-20 13:50 ` [Ksummit-discuss] [PATCH 3/7] Code of Conduct Interpretation: Properly reference the TAB correctly Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-20 13:50   ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-20 13:50 ` [Ksummit-discuss] [PATCH 4/7] Code of Conduct: Provide links between the two documents Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-20 13:50   ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-20 13:50 ` [Ksummit-discuss] [PATCH 5/7] Code of Conduct Interpretation: Put in the proper URL for the committee Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-20 13:50   ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-20 19:01   ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Geert Uytterhoeven
2018-10-20 19:01     ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2018-10-21  7:18     ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Greg KH
2018-10-21  7:18       ` Greg KH
2018-10-20 13:51 ` [Ksummit-discuss] [PATCH 6/7] Code of Conduct: Change the contact email address Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-20 13:51   ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-20 18:28   ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Alan Cox
2018-10-20 18:28     ` Alan Cox
2018-10-20 18:45     ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Trond Myklebust
2018-10-20 18:45       ` Trond Myklebust
2018-10-20 19:14       ` jonsmirl
2018-10-20 19:14         ` jonsmirl
2018-10-21  8:27         ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-10-21  8:27           ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-10-21  9:23           ` Greg KH
2018-10-21  9:23             ` Greg KH
2018-10-20 19:24     ` Tim.Bird
2018-10-20 19:24       ` Tim.Bird
2018-10-20 20:07       ` Trond Myklebust
2018-10-20 20:07         ` Trond Myklebust
2018-10-21  0:13       ` Alan Cox [this message]
2018-10-21  0:13         ` Alan Cox
2018-10-21  6:19         ` Thomas Gleixner
2018-10-21  6:19           ` Thomas Gleixner
2018-10-20 20:13     ` James Bottomley
2018-10-20 20:13       ` James Bottomley
2018-10-20 13:51 ` [Ksummit-discuss] [PATCH 7/7] MAINTAINERS: Add an entry for the code of conduct Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-20 13:51   ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-21 21:20 ` [Ksummit-discuss] Call to Action Re: [PATCH 0/7] Code of Conduct: Fix some wording, and add an interpretation document NeilBrown
2018-10-21 21:20   ` NeilBrown
2018-10-21 22:26   ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Josh Triplett
2018-10-21 22:26     ` Josh Triplett
2018-10-21 23:37     ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-10-21 23:37       ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-10-23  1:44       ` NeilBrown
2018-10-22 20:26     ` NeilBrown
2018-10-22 20:26       ` NeilBrown
2018-10-22 22:46       ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-10-22 22:46         ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-10-23  1:31         ` NeilBrown
2018-10-23  1:31           ` NeilBrown
2018-10-23  6:26         ` Dan Carpenter
2018-10-23  6:40           ` Al Viro
2018-10-23  6:40             ` Al Viro
2018-10-23  6:46             ` Dan Carpenter
2018-10-23  6:46               ` Dan Carpenter
2018-10-23  3:31       ` Al Viro
2018-10-23  3:31         ` Al Viro
2018-10-23  4:25         ` NeilBrown
2018-10-23  4:25           ` NeilBrown
2018-10-23  4:52           ` Al Viro
2018-10-23  4:52             ` Al Viro
2018-10-23  5:28             ` NeilBrown
2018-10-23  5:28               ` NeilBrown
2018-10-23  6:00               ` Al Viro
2018-10-23  6:00                 ` Al Viro
2018-10-23 20:45                 ` NeilBrown
2018-10-23 20:45                   ` NeilBrown
2018-10-23  8:11           ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-10-23  8:11             ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-10-23 14:22             ` Rainer Fiebig
2018-10-23 14:22               ` Rainer Fiebig
2018-10-23 15:43               ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-10-23 15:43                 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-10-23 17:51                 ` Rainer Fiebig
2018-10-23 21:14             ` NeilBrown
2018-10-23 21:14               ` NeilBrown
2018-10-24 12:16       ` Josh Triplett
2018-10-24 12:16         ` Josh Triplett
2018-10-25 21:14         ` NeilBrown
2018-10-25 21:14           ` NeilBrown
2018-10-27  1:10           ` Josh Triplett
2018-10-27  1:10             ` Josh Triplett
2018-10-28 21:48             ` NeilBrown
2018-10-28 21:48               ` NeilBrown
2018-11-01 16:45             ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-11-01 16:45               ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-11-01 21:11               ` Josh Triplett
2018-11-01 21:11                 ` Josh Triplett
2018-11-02 13:13                 ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-11-02 13:13                   ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-11-01 21:50               ` NeilBrown
2018-11-02 13:33                 ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-11-02 13:33                   ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-11-03  8:36                   ` NeilBrown
2018-11-03  8:36                     ` NeilBrown
2018-11-03 17:37                     ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-11-03 17:37                       ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-11-03 21:06                       ` NeilBrown
2018-11-03 21:06                         ` NeilBrown
2018-11-03 22:23                         ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-11-03 22:23                           ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-11-02 13:52                 ` James Bottomley
2018-11-03  9:19                   ` Eric S. Raymond
2018-11-04 10:35         ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2018-11-04 10:35           ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2018-10-21 22:33   ` Joe Perches
2018-10-21 22:33     ` Joe Perches
2018-10-21 22:37     ` Randy Dunlap
2018-10-21 22:37       ` Randy Dunlap
2018-10-22  9:09   ` Rainer Fiebig
2018-10-22  9:09     ` Rainer Fiebig
2018-10-22 11:02   ` [Ksummit-discuss] " James Bottomley
2018-10-22 11:02     ` James Bottomley
2018-10-24  8:49   ` Laura Abbott
2018-10-24  8:49     ` Laura Abbott
2018-10-25  7:56     ` The linux devs can rescind their license grant visionsofalice
2018-10-25  8:19       ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-25  8:19         ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-25 19:39         ` Eric S. Raymond
2018-10-25 20:47           ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-10-25 20:47             ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-10-25 21:41             ` Eric S. Raymond
2018-10-25 22:12               ` [Ksummit-discuss] " NeilBrown
2018-10-25 22:12                 ` NeilBrown
2018-10-25 22:38                 ` Eric S. Raymond
2018-10-25 22:52                   ` [Ksummit-discuss] " NeilBrown
2018-10-25 22:52                     ` NeilBrown
2018-11-04 10:47                 ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Geert Uytterhoeven
2018-11-04 10:47                   ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2018-10-25 23:06               ` Al Viro
2018-10-25 23:06                 ` Al Viro
2018-10-26  2:28                 ` Eric S. Raymond
2018-10-26  5:49                   ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Al Viro
2018-10-26  5:49                     ` Al Viro
2018-10-27  6:52                 ` visionsofalice
2018-10-27  7:32                   ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Al Viro
2018-10-27  7:32                     ` Al Viro
2018-10-27 16:18                     ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Tim.Bird
2018-10-27 16:18                       ` Tim.Bird
2018-10-27 22:09                       ` Jiri Kosina
2018-10-27 22:09                         ` Jiri Kosina
     [not found]                         ` <CAK2MWOtNUTjWy5pTcGco5DNurqNCc=9CfDJ-Ko-K+6HDC55ikg@mail.gmail.com>
2018-10-27 23:07                           ` Eric S. Raymond
2018-10-27 23:40                           ` Al Viro
2018-10-27 23:40                             ` Al Viro
2018-10-28 21:13                         ` NeilBrown
2018-10-28 21:13                           ` NeilBrown
2018-10-25 23:32             ` Iván Chavero
2018-10-26 13:15           ` Eben Moglen
2018-10-26 15:50             ` Eric S. Raymond
2018-10-26 15:53               ` Eben Moglen
2018-10-26 17:32             ` visionsofalice
2018-10-26 18:31               ` Eben Moglen
2018-10-27  7:12                 ` visionsofalice
2018-12-18 18:53                 ` The linux devs can rescind their license grant. - Analysis published? visionsofalice
2018-10-26 10:34         ` The linux devs can rescind their license grant visionsofalice
2018-10-29 22:31         ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Bradley M. Kuhn
2018-10-29 22:31           ` Bradley M. Kuhn
2018-12-18 19:17           ` visionsofalice
2018-10-27  5:04       ` The linux devs can rescind their license grant. - Additional restrictive terms visionsofalice
2018-12-18 20:55       ` The CoC regime is a License violation " visionsofalice
2018-12-19  1:17       ` visionsofalice
2018-12-23 16:05       ` visionsofalice
2018-10-25 22:02     ` [Ksummit-discuss] Call to Action Re: [PATCH 0/7] Code of Conduct: Fix some wording, and add an interpretation document NeilBrown
2018-10-25 22:02       ` NeilBrown
2018-10-25  8:06   ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Pavel Machek
2018-10-25  8:06     ` Pavel Machek
2018-10-25 11:20   ` Rainer Fiebig
2018-10-25 22:18     ` [Ksummit-discuss] " NeilBrown
2018-10-25 22:18       ` NeilBrown
2018-10-26  8:33       ` Rainer Fiebig
2018-10-26 22:40         ` [Ksummit-discuss] " NeilBrown
2018-10-26 22:40           ` NeilBrown
2018-10-27 11:49           ` Rainer Fiebig
2018-10-21 23:36 ` Eric S. Raymond

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