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From: Jan Kara <jack@suse.cz>
To: Dave Chinner <david@fromorbit.com>
Cc: Jan Kara <jack@suse.cz>, Jason Gunthorpe <jgg@ziepe.ca>,
	Jerome Glisse <jglisse@redhat.com>,
	John Hubbard <jhubbard@nvidia.com>,
	Matthew Wilcox <willy@infradead.org>,
	Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@intel.com>,
	John Hubbard <john.hubbard@gmail.com>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Linux MM <linux-mm@kvack.org>,
	tom@talpey.com, Al Viro <viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk>,
	benve@cisco.com, Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org>,
	Christopher Lameter <cl@linux.com>,
	"Dalessandro, Dennis" <dennis.dalessandro@intel.com>,
	Doug Ledford <dledford@redhat.com>,
	Michal Hocko <mhocko@kernel.org>,
	mike.marciniszyn@intel.com, rcampbell@nvidia.com,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-fsdevel <linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 1/2] mm: introduce put_user_page*(), placeholder versions
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 10:07:53 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20181220090753.GB27845@quack2.suse.cz> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20181219223312.GP6311@dastard>

On Thu 20-12-18 09:33:12, Dave Chinner wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 12:35:40PM +0100, Jan Kara wrote:
> > On Wed 19-12-18 21:28:25, Dave Chinner wrote:
> > > On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 08:03:29PM -0700, Jason Gunthorpe wrote:
> > > > On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 10:42:54AM +1100, Dave Chinner wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > Essentially, what we are talking about is how to handle broken
> > > > > hardware. I say we should just brun it with napalm and thermite
> > > > > (i.e. taint the kernel with "unsupportable hardware") and force
> > > > > wait_for_stable_page() to trigger when there are GUP mappings if
> > > > > the underlying storage doesn't already require it.
> > > > 
> > > > If you want to ban O_DIRECT/etc from writing to file backed pages,
> > > > then just do it.
> > > 
> > > O_DIRECT IO *isn't the problem*.
> > 
> > That is not true. O_DIRECT IO is a problem. In some aspects it is easier
> > than the problem with RDMA but currently O_DIRECT IO can crash your machine
> > or corrupt data the same way RDMA can.
> 
> It's not O_DIRECT - it's a ""transient page pin". Yes, there are
> problems with that right now, but as we've discussed the issues can
> be avoided by:
> 
> 	a) stable pages always blocking in ->page_mkwrite;
> 	b) blocking in write_cache_pages() on an elevated map count
> 	when WB_SYNC_ALL is set; and
> 	c) blocking in truncate_pagecache() on an elevated map
> 	count.
> 
> That prevents:
> 	a) gup pinning a page that is currently under writeback and
> 	modifying it while IO is in flight;
> 	b) a dirty page being written back while it is pinned by
> 	GUP, thereby turning it clean before the gup reference calls
> 	set_page_dirty() on DMA completion; and

This is not prevented by what you wrote above as currently GUP does not
increase page->_mapcount. Currently, there's no way to distinguish GUP page
reference from any other page reference - GUP simply does get_page() - and
big part of this thread as I see it is exactly about how to introduce this
distinction and how to convert all GUP users to the new convention safely
(as currently they just pass struct page * pointers around and eventually
do put_page() on them). Increasing page->_mapcount in GUP and trying to
deduce the pin count from that is one option Jerome suggested. At this
point I'm not 100% sure this is going to work but we'll see.

> 	c) truncate/hole punch for pulling the page out from under
> 	the gup operation that is ongoing.
> 
> This is an adequate solution for a short term transient pins. It
> doesn't break fsync(), it doesn't change how truncate works and it
> fixes the problem where a mapped file is the buffer for an O_DIRECT
> IO rather than the open fd and that buffer file gets truncated.
> IOWs, transient pins (and hence O_DIRECT) is not really the problem
> here.

For now let's assume that the mechanism how to detect page pinned by GUP is
actually somehow solved and we have already page_pinned() implemented. Then
what you suggest can actually create a deadlock AFAICS:

Process 1:						Process 2:

							fsync("file")
/* Evil memory buffer with page order reversed */
addr1 = mmap(NULL, 4096, PROT_WRITE, MAP_SHARED, "file", 4096);
addr2 = mmap(addr1+4096, 4096, PROT_WRITE, MAP_SHARED, "file", 0);

/* Fault in pages */
*addr1 = 0;
*addr2 = 0;
							adds page with index 0
							  to bio

fd = open("file2", O_RDWR | O_DIRECT);
read(fd, addr1, 8192)
  -> eventually gets to iov_iter_get_pages() and then to
     get_user_pages_fast().
     -> pins "file" page with index 1
							blocks on pin for
							  page with index 1
     -> blocks in PageWriteback for page with index 0

Possibility of deadlocks like this is why I've decided it will be easier
to just bounce the page for writeback we cannot avoid rather than block the
writeback...

> The problem with this is that blocking on elevated map count does
> not work for long term pins (i.e. gup_longterm()) which are defined
> as:
> 
>  * "longterm" == userspace controlled elevated page count lifetime.
>  * Contrast this to iov_iter_get_pages() usages which are transient.
> 
> It's the "userspace controlled" part of the long term gup pin that
> is the problem we need to solve. If we treat them the same as a
> transient pin, then this leads to fsync() and truncate either
> blocking for a long time waiting for userspace to drop it's gup
> reference, or having to be failed with something like EBUSY or
> EAGAIN.

I agree. "userspace controlled" pins are another big problem to solve.

> This is the problem revokable file layout leases solve. The NFS
> server is already using this for revoking delegations from remote
> clients. Userspace holding long term GUP references is essentially
> the same thing - it's a delegation of file ownership to userspace
> that the filesystem must be able to revoke when it needs to run
> internal and/or 3rd-party requested operations on that delegated
> file.
> 
> If the hardware supports page faults, then we can further optimise
> the long term pin case to relax stable page requirements and allow
> page cleaning to occur while there are long term pins. In this case,
> the hardware will write-fault the clean pages appropriately before
> DMA is initiated, and hence avoid the need for data integrity
> operations like fsync() to trigger lease revocation. However,
> truncate/hole punch still requires lease revocation to work sanely,
> especially when we consider DAX *must* ensure there are no remaining
> references to the physical pmem page after the space has been freed.
> 
> i.e. conflating the transient and long term gup pins as the same
> problem doesn't help anyone. If we fix the short term pin problems,
> then the long term pin problem become tractable by adding a layer
> over the top (i.e.  hardware page fault capability and/or file lease
> requirements).  Existing apps and hardware will continue to work -
> external operations on the pinned file will simply hang rather than
> causing corruption or kernel crashes.  New (or updated) applications
> will play nicely with lease revocation and at that point the "long
> term pin" basically becomes a transient pin where the unpin latency
> is determined by how quickly the app responds to the lease
> revocation. And page fault capable hardware will reduce the
> occurrence of lease revocations due to data writeback/integrity
> operations and behave almost identically to cpu-based mmap accesses
> to file backed pages.

Agreed. I think we are on the same page wrt this. Just at this point I'm
trying to solve the "transient pin" problem...

								Honza
-- 
Jan Kara <jack@suse.com>
SUSE Labs, CR

  reply	other threads:[~2018-12-20  9:07 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 213+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-12-04  0:17 [PATCH 0/2] put_user_page*(): start converting the call sites john.hubbard
2018-12-04  0:17 ` [PATCH 1/2] mm: introduce put_user_page*(), placeholder versions john.hubbard
2018-12-04  7:53   ` Mike Rapoport
2018-12-05  1:40     ` John Hubbard
2018-12-04 20:28   ` Dan Williams
2018-12-04 21:56     ` John Hubbard
2018-12-04 23:03       ` Dan Williams
2018-12-05  0:36         ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-05  0:40           ` Dan Williams
2018-12-05  0:59             ` John Hubbard
2018-12-05  0:58         ` John Hubbard
2018-12-05  1:00           ` Dan Williams
2018-12-05  1:15           ` Matthew Wilcox
2018-12-05  1:44             ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-05  1:57               ` John Hubbard
2018-12-07  2:45                 ` John Hubbard
2018-12-07 19:16                   ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-07 19:26                     ` Dan Williams
2018-12-07 19:40                       ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-08  0:52                     ` John Hubbard
2018-12-08  2:24                       ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-10 10:28                         ` Jan Kara
2018-12-12 15:03                           ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-12 16:27                             ` Dan Williams
2018-12-12 17:02                               ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-12 17:49                                 ` Dan Williams
2018-12-12 19:07                                   ` John Hubbard
2018-12-12 21:30                               ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-12 21:40                                 ` Dan Williams
2018-12-12 21:53                                   ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-12 22:11                                     ` Matthew Wilcox
2018-12-12 22:16                                       ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-12 23:37                                     ` Jason Gunthorpe
2018-12-12 23:46                                       ` John Hubbard
2018-12-12 23:54                                       ` Dan Williams
2018-12-13  0:01                                       ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-13  0:18                                         ` Dan Williams
2018-12-13  0:44                                           ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-13  3:26                                             ` Jason Gunthorpe
2018-12-13  3:20                                         ` Jason Gunthorpe
2018-12-13 12:43                                           ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-13 13:40                                             ` Tom Talpey
2018-12-13 14:18                                               ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-13 14:51                                                 ` Tom Talpey
2018-12-13 15:18                                                   ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-13 18:12                                                     ` Tom Talpey
2018-12-13 19:18                                                       ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-14 10:41                                             ` Jan Kara
2018-12-14 15:25                                               ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-12 21:56                                 ` John Hubbard
2018-12-12 22:04                                   ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-12 22:11                                     ` John Hubbard
2018-12-12 22:14                                       ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-12 22:17                                         ` John Hubbard
2018-12-12 21:46                             ` Dave Chinner
2018-12-12 21:59                               ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-13  0:51                                 ` Dave Chinner
2018-12-13  2:02                                   ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-13 15:56                                     ` Christopher Lameter
2018-12-13 16:02                                       ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-14  6:00                                     ` Dave Chinner
2018-12-14 15:13                                       ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-14  3:52                                   ` John Hubbard
2018-12-14  5:21                                     ` Dan Williams
2018-12-14  6:11                                       ` John Hubbard
2018-12-14 15:20                                         ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-14 19:38                                         ` Dan Williams
2018-12-14 19:48                                           ` Matthew Wilcox
2018-12-14 19:53                                             ` Dave Hansen
2018-12-14 20:03                                               ` Matthew Wilcox
2018-12-14 20:17                                                 ` Dan Williams
2018-12-14 20:29                                                   ` Matthew Wilcox
2018-12-15  0:41                                                 ` John Hubbard
2018-12-17  8:56                                           ` Jan Kara
2018-12-17 18:28                                             ` Dan Williams
2018-12-14 15:43                               ` Jan Kara
2018-12-16 21:58                                 ` Dave Chinner
2018-12-17 18:11                                   ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-17 18:34                                     ` Matthew Wilcox
2018-12-17 19:48                                       ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-17 19:51                                         ` Matthew Wilcox
2018-12-17 19:54                                           ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-17 19:59                                             ` Matthew Wilcox
2018-12-17 20:55                                               ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-17 21:03                                                 ` Matthew Wilcox
2018-12-17 21:15                                                   ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-18  1:09                                       ` Dave Chinner
2018-12-18  6:12                                       ` Darrick J. Wong
2018-12-18  9:30                                       ` Jan Kara
2018-12-18 23:29                                         ` John Hubbard
2018-12-19  2:07                                           ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-19 11:08                                             ` Jan Kara
2018-12-20 10:54                                               ` John Hubbard
2018-12-20 16:50                                                 ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-20 16:57                                                   ` Dan Williams
2018-12-20 16:49                                               ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-03  1:55                                               ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-03  3:27                                                 ` John Hubbard
2019-01-03 14:57                                                   ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-03  9:26                                                 ` Jan Kara
2019-01-03 14:44                                                   ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-11  2:59                                                     ` John Hubbard
2019-01-11  2:59                                                       ` John Hubbard
2019-01-11 16:51                                                       ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-11 16:51                                                         ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-12  1:04                                                         ` John Hubbard
2019-01-12  1:04                                                           ` John Hubbard
2019-01-12  2:02                                                           ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-12  2:02                                                             ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-12  2:38                                                             ` John Hubbard
2019-01-12  2:38                                                               ` John Hubbard
2019-01-12  2:46                                                               ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-12  2:46                                                                 ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-12  3:06                                                                 ` John Hubbard
2019-01-12  3:06                                                                   ` John Hubbard
2019-01-12  3:25                                                                   ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-12  3:25                                                                     ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-12 20:46                                                                     ` John Hubbard
2019-01-12 20:46                                                                       ` John Hubbard
2019-01-14 14:54                                                                   ` Jan Kara
2019-01-14 14:54                                                                     ` Jan Kara
2019-01-14 17:21                                                                     ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-14 17:21                                                                       ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-14 19:09                                                                       ` John Hubbard
2019-01-14 19:09                                                                         ` John Hubbard
2019-01-15  8:34                                                                         ` Jan Kara
2019-01-15  8:34                                                                           ` Jan Kara
2019-01-15 21:39                                                                           ` John Hubbard
2019-01-15 21:39                                                                             ` John Hubbard
2019-01-15  8:07                                                                       ` Jan Kara
2019-01-15  8:07                                                                         ` Jan Kara
2019-01-15 17:15                                                                         ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-15 17:15                                                                           ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-15 21:56                                                                           ` John Hubbard
2019-01-15 21:56                                                                             ` John Hubbard
2019-01-15 22:12                                                                             ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-15 22:12                                                                               ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-16  0:44                                                                               ` John Hubbard
2019-01-16  0:44                                                                                 ` John Hubbard
2019-01-16  1:56                                                                                 ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-16  1:56                                                                                   ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-16  2:01                                                                                   ` Dan Williams
2019-01-16  2:01                                                                                     ` Dan Williams
2019-01-16  2:23                                                                                     ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-16  2:23                                                                                       ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-16  4:34                                                                                       ` Dave Chinner
2019-01-16  4:34                                                                                         ` Dave Chinner
2019-01-16 14:50                                                                                         ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-16 14:50                                                                                           ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-16 22:51                                                                                           ` Dave Chinner
2019-01-16 22:51                                                                                             ` Dave Chinner
2019-01-16 11:38                                                                         ` Jan Kara
2019-01-16 11:38                                                                           ` Jan Kara
2019-01-16 13:08                                                                           ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-16 13:08                                                                             ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-17  5:42                                                                             ` John Hubbard
2019-01-17  5:42                                                                               ` John Hubbard
2019-01-17 15:21                                                                               ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-17 15:21                                                                                 ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-18  0:16                                                                                 ` Dave Chinner
2019-01-18  1:59                                                                                   ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-17  9:30                                                                             ` Jan Kara
2019-01-17  9:30                                                                               ` Jan Kara
2019-01-17 15:17                                                                               ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-17 15:17                                                                                 ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-22 15:24                                                                                 ` Jan Kara
2019-01-22 16:46                                                                                   ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-23 18:02                                                                                     ` Jan Kara
2019-01-23 19:04                                                                                       ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-29  0:22                                                                                         ` John Hubbard
2019-01-29  1:23                                                                                           ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-29  6:41                                                                                             ` John Hubbard
2019-01-29 10:12                                                                                               ` Jan Kara
2019-01-30  2:21                                                                                                 ` John Hubbard
2019-01-17  5:25                                                                         ` John Hubbard
2019-01-17  5:25                                                                           ` John Hubbard
2019-01-17  9:04                                                                           ` Jan Kara
2019-01-17  9:04                                                                             ` Jan Kara
2019-01-12  3:14                                                               ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-12  3:14                                                                 ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-18 10:33                                   ` Jan Kara
2018-12-18 23:42                                     ` Dave Chinner
2018-12-19  3:03                                       ` Jason Gunthorpe
2018-12-19  5:26                                         ` Dan Williams
2018-12-19 11:19                                           ` Jan Kara
2018-12-19 10:28                                         ` Dave Chinner
2018-12-19 11:35                                           ` Jan Kara
2018-12-19 16:56                                             ` Jason Gunthorpe
2018-12-19 22:33                                             ` Dave Chinner
2018-12-20  9:07                                               ` Jan Kara [this message]
2018-12-20 16:54                                               ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-19 13:24                                       ` Jan Kara
2018-12-08  5:18                       ` Matthew Wilcox
2018-12-12 19:13                         ` John Hubbard
2018-12-08  7:16                       ` Dan Williams
2018-12-08 16:33                         ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-08 16:48                           ` Christoph Hellwig
2018-12-08 17:47                             ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-08 18:26                               ` Christoph Hellwig
2018-12-08 18:45                                 ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-08 18:09                             ` Dan Williams
2018-12-08 18:12                               ` Christoph Hellwig
2018-12-11  6:18                               ` Dave Chinner
2018-12-05  5:52             ` Dan Williams
2018-12-05 11:16       ` Jan Kara
2018-12-04  0:17 ` [PATCH 2/2] infiniband/mm: convert put_page() to put_user_page*() john.hubbard
2018-12-04 17:10 ` [PATCH 0/2] put_user_page*(): start converting the call sites David Laight
2018-12-05  1:05   ` John Hubbard
2018-12-05 14:08     ` David Laight
2018-12-28  8:37       ` Pavel Machek
2019-02-08  7:56 [PATCH 0/2] mm: put_user_page() call site conversion first john.hubbard
2019-02-08  7:56 ` [PATCH 1/2] mm: introduce put_user_page*(), placeholder versions john.hubbard
2019-02-08 10:32   ` Mike Rapoport
2019-02-08 20:44     ` John Hubbard

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