From: "Jakob Østergaard" <jakob@unthought.net>
To: John Levon <moz@compsoc.man.ac.uk>
Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
Daniel Phillips <phillips@bonn-fries.net>,
Tim Jansen <tim@tjansen.de>
Subject: Re: PROPOSAL: dot-proc interface [was: /proc stuff]
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 19:31:34 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20011104193134.G14001@unthought.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <E15zF9H-0000NL-00@wagner> <20011104163354.C14001@unthought.net> <160QM5-1HAz5sC@fmrl00.sul.t-online.com> <20011104172742Z16629-26013+37@humbolt.nl.linux.org> <20011104184159.E14001@unthought.net> <20011104175945.A91628@compsoc.man.ac.uk>
In-Reply-To: <20011104175945.A91628@compsoc.man.ac.uk>; from moz@compsoc.man.ac.uk on Sun, Nov 04, 2001 at 05:59:45PM +0000
On Sun, Nov 04, 2001 at 05:59:45PM +0000, John Levon wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 04, 2001 at 06:41:59PM +0100, Jakob Østergaard wrote:
>
> > The "fuzzy parsing" userland has to do today to get useful information
> > out of many proc files today is not nice at all. It eats CPU, it's
> > error-prone, and all in all it's just "wrong".
>
> This is because the files are human-readable, nothing to do with binary vs. plain
> text. proc should be made (entirely ?) of value-per-file trees, and a back-compat
> compatprocfs union mounted for the files people and programs are expecting.
So you want generaiton and parsing of text strings whenever we pass an int from
the kernel ?
>
> > However - having a human-readable /proc that you can use directly with
> > cat, echo, your scripts, simple programs using read(), etc. is absolutely
> > a *very* cool feature that I don't want to let go. It is just too damn
> > practical.
>
> I don't see that it's at all useful: it just makes life harder. You yourself
> state above that read(2) parsing of human readable files is "not nice at all",
> and now you're saying it is "just too damn practical".
cat /proc/mdstat - that's practical !
cat /proc/cpuinfo - equally so
Anyway - I won't involve myself in the argument whether we should keep
the old /proc or not - I wanted to present my idea how we could overcome
some fundamental problems in the existing framework, non-intrusively.
>
> Just drop the human-readable stuff from the new /proc, please.
I don't care enough about it to discuss it now, but I'm sure others do ;)
>
> In what way is parsing /proc/meminfo in a script more practical than
> cat /proc/meminfo/total ?
I see your point.
There's some system overhead when converting text/integer values, but
if you're polling so often I guess you have other problems anyway...
...
>
> This just seems needless duplication, and fragile. Representing things as directory
> hierarchies and single-value files in text seems to me to be much nicer, just as
> convenient, and much nicer for fs/proc/ source...
I like the idea of single-value files.
But then how do we get the nice summary information we have today ?
Hmm... How about:
/proc/meminfo - as it was
/proc/.meminfo/ - as you suggested
That way we keep /proc looking like it was, while offering the very nice
single-value file interface to apps that needs it.
I could even live with text encoding of the values - I just hate not being able
to tell if it's supposed to be i32/u32/i64/u64/float/double/... from looking
at the variable. Type-less interfaces with implicitly typed values are
*evil*.
I'd love to have type information passed along with the value. Of course
you could add a "f"_t file for each "f", and handle eventual discrepancies
at run-time in your application.
--
................................................................
: jakob@unthought.net : And I see the elder races, :
:.........................: putrid forms of man :
: Jakob Østergaard : See him rise and claim the earth, :
: OZ9ABN : his downfall is at hand. :
:.........................:............{Konkhra}...............:
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2001-11-04 18:32 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 258+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2001-11-01 10:32 [PATCH] 2.5 PROPOSAL: Replacement for current /proc of shit Rusty Russell
2001-11-01 10:42 ` Jeff Garzik
2001-11-01 16:49 ` Martin Dalecki
2001-11-01 17:06 ` Gábor Lénárt
2001-11-01 12:06 ` Tim Jansen
2001-11-01 18:34 ` James Simmons
2001-11-02 1:42 ` Rusty Russell
2001-11-02 1:56 ` Erik Andersen
2001-11-02 11:44 ` Padraig Brady
2001-11-02 9:11 ` Alexander Viro
2001-11-02 12:39 ` Martin Dalecki
2001-11-02 11:57 ` Alexander Viro
2001-11-02 13:55 ` Keith Owens
2001-11-02 15:08 ` Martin Dalecki
2001-11-04 5:36 ` Albert D. Cahalan
2001-11-02 12:46 ` Miquel van Smoorenburg
2001-11-02 2:20 ` Rusty Russell
2001-11-02 13:59 ` Tim Jansen
[not found] ` <20011103103106.7eb6098b.rusty@rustcorp.com.au>
2001-11-03 11:47 ` Tim Jansen
2001-11-03 23:44 ` Rusty Russell
2001-11-04 1:40 ` Daniel Phillips
2001-11-04 2:08 ` Jakob Østergaard
2001-11-04 12:30 ` Tim Jansen
2001-11-04 13:36 ` Daniel Kobras
2001-11-04 14:13 ` Tim Jansen
2001-11-04 15:33 ` PROPOSAL: dot-proc interface [was: /proc stuff] Jakob Østergaard
2001-11-04 16:05 ` Gábor Lénárt
2001-11-04 16:31 ` Daniel Phillips
2001-11-04 17:30 ` Jakob Østergaard
2001-11-04 16:45 ` Tim Jansen
2001-11-04 17:28 ` Daniel Phillips
2001-11-04 17:41 ` Jakob Østergaard
2001-11-04 17:54 ` SpaceWalker
2001-11-04 20:45 ` Albert D. Cahalan
2001-11-04 17:59 ` John Levon
2001-11-04 18:31 ` Jakob Østergaard [this message]
2001-11-04 18:40 ` Alexander Viro
2001-11-04 19:04 ` Jakob Østergaard
2001-11-04 19:24 ` Alex Bligh - linux-kernel
2001-11-04 19:45 ` Jakob Østergaard
2001-11-04 19:52 ` Alexander Viro
2001-11-04 20:06 ` Jakob Østergaard
2001-11-04 22:01 ` Daniel Phillips
2001-11-04 21:12 ` Albert D. Cahalan
2001-11-04 21:20 ` Jakob Østergaard
2001-11-04 21:42 ` Tim Jansen
2001-11-04 22:13 ` Albert D. Cahalan
2001-11-05 11:23 ` Martin Dalecki
2001-11-05 15:58 ` Alexander Viro
2001-11-05 18:30 ` Martin Dalecki
2001-11-05 23:00 ` Albert D. Cahalan
2001-11-06 13:47 ` Martin Dalecki
2001-11-06 17:13 ` Gerhard Mack
2001-11-05 16:38 ` Stephen Satchell
2001-11-05 18:39 ` Martin Dalecki
2001-11-05 18:28 ` Ben Greear
2001-11-05 18:40 ` Rik van Riel
2001-11-05 21:03 ` Tim Jansen
2001-11-05 21:58 ` Ben Greear
2001-11-05 22:51 ` Tim Jansen
2001-11-05 22:59 ` Erik Andersen
2001-11-05 23:35 ` Tim Jansen
2001-11-05 23:41 ` Alexander Viro
2001-11-06 13:49 ` Martin Dalecki
2001-11-06 19:49 ` dank
2001-11-06 22:22 ` Erik Andersen
2001-11-06 22:47 ` dank
2001-11-06 23:11 ` Erik Andersen
2001-11-06 23:39 ` Ricky Beam
2001-11-07 12:45 ` Remco Post
2001-11-07 1:06 ` George Greer
2001-11-05 19:58 ` Jonathan Lundell
2001-11-05 21:43 ` Stephen Satchell
2001-11-06 5:22 ` Ragnar Hojland Espinosa
2001-11-04 21:22 ` Alex Bligh - linux-kernel
2001-11-05 4:03 ` Stuart Young
2001-11-05 4:05 ` Alexander Viro
2001-11-05 4:55 ` Stuart Young
2001-11-05 16:32 ` SpaceWalker
2001-11-06 6:46 ` Jakob Østergaard
2001-11-04 19:29 ` Alexander Viro
2001-11-04 19:50 ` Jakob Østergaard
2001-11-04 20:01 ` Alexander Viro
2001-11-04 20:09 ` Jakob Østergaard
2001-11-06 7:23 ` Kai Henningsen
2001-11-06 14:00 ` Jakob Østergaard
2001-11-04 18:27 ` Tim Jansen
2001-11-04 18:35 ` Alexander Viro
2001-11-04 18:39 ` Jakob Østergaard
2001-11-07 1:20 ` Pavel Machek
2001-11-07 21:14 ` Rik van Riel
2000-01-01 0:13 ` Pavel Machek
2001-11-04 18:20 ` Tim Jansen
2001-11-04 18:30 ` Alexander Viro
2001-11-04 18:52 ` Jakob Østergaard
2001-11-04 19:18 ` Daniel Phillips
2001-11-04 21:41 ` Albert D. Cahalan
2001-11-05 11:06 ` Martin Dalecki
2001-11-05 10:28 ` Daniel Phillips
2001-11-05 22:46 ` Albert D. Cahalan
2001-11-06 0:54 ` Daniel Phillips
2001-11-06 1:11 ` Stephen Satchell
2001-11-04 18:46 ` Jakob Østergaard
2001-11-04 19:07 ` Linus Torvalds
2001-11-04 19:20 ` Jakob Østergaard
2001-11-04 19:32 ` Dave Jones
2001-11-04 19:52 ` Jakob Østergaard
2001-11-04 20:06 ` Alexander Viro
2001-11-04 20:11 ` Jakob Østergaard
2001-11-11 10:06 ` Kai Henningsen
2001-11-11 19:43 ` Jakob Østergaard
2001-11-12 13:43 ` Pascal Schmidt
2001-11-13 12:09 ` Jakob Østergaard
2001-11-13 14:41 ` Riley Williams
2001-11-04 22:09 ` Luigi Genoni
2001-11-04 17:48 ` Jakob Østergaard
2001-11-04 18:02 ` John Levon
2001-11-04 18:34 ` Tim Jansen
2001-11-04 18:59 ` Jakob Østergaard
2001-11-04 19:19 ` Tim Jansen
2001-11-04 19:24 ` Jakob Østergaard
2001-11-04 19:41 ` Tim Jansen
2001-11-04 19:55 ` Jakob Østergaard
2001-11-04 20:13 ` Tim Jansen
2001-11-04 20:11 ` Jakob Østergaard
2001-11-04 20:47 ` Alex Bligh - linux-kernel
2001-11-04 21:02 ` Jakob Østergaard
2001-11-04 22:53 ` Stephen Satchell
2001-11-05 11:04 ` zmwillow
2001-11-05 13:41 ` Petr Baudis
2001-11-05 20:49 ` Tim Jansen
2001-11-05 22:01 ` Ben Greear
[not found] ` <20011105223413.U11619@pasky.ji.cz>
[not found] ` <160rly-1tl3XUC@fmrl05.sul.t-online.com>
2001-11-05 22:07 ` Petr Baudis
2001-11-06 7:25 ` Jakob Østergaard
2001-11-06 8:21 ` Petr Baudis
2001-11-06 8:34 ` Alexander Viro
2001-11-06 13:43 ` Jakob Østergaard
2001-11-06 17:01 ` Petr Baudis
2001-11-05 19:55 ` PROPOSAL: kernfs (was: Re: PROPOSAL: dot-proc interface [was: /proc st Kai Henningsen
2001-11-06 18:56 ` PROPOSAL: /proc standards (was dot-proc interface [was: /proc stuff]) Stephen Satchell
2001-11-06 19:38 ` Ben Greear
2001-11-06 20:12 ` PROPOSAL: /proc standards (was dot-proc interface [was: /proc Erik Hensema
2001-11-06 20:58 ` Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk
2001-11-06 21:43 ` Ricky Beam
2001-11-06 22:14 ` Alexander Viro
2001-11-07 0:33 ` Alex Bligh - linux-kernel
2001-11-07 7:20 ` Albert D. Cahalan
2001-11-07 8:07 ` Alexander Viro
2001-11-07 17:24 ` Alex Bligh - linux-kernel
2001-11-07 17:22 ` Blue Lang
2001-11-07 19:21 ` Ricky Beam
2001-11-11 10:27 ` Kai Henningsen
2001-11-08 0:47 ` Albert D. Cahalan
2001-11-08 18:53 ` Alex Bligh - linux-kernel
2001-11-08 21:28 ` Ricky Beam
2001-11-09 5:15 ` Albert D. Cahalan
2001-11-19 19:22 ` bill davidsen
2001-11-07 0:13 ` Martin Dalecki
2001-11-07 0:40 ` Alex Bligh - linux-kernel
2001-11-07 1:10 ` Ricky Beam
[not found] ` <Pine.GSO.4.33.0111061947540.17287-100000@sweetums.bluetronic.ne t>
2001-11-07 1:17 ` Alex Bligh - linux-kernel
2001-11-07 11:32 ` Martin Dalecki
2001-11-07 12:35 ` Remco Post
2001-11-07 23:53 ` Albert D. Cahalan
2001-11-07 22:24 ` Paul P Komkoff Jr
2001-11-07 23:15 ` Phil Howard
2001-11-06 21:24 ` Rik van Riel
2001-11-06 21:45 ` Erik Hensema
2001-11-06 22:06 ` Tim Jansen
2001-11-06 22:28 ` Erik Andersen
2001-11-06 22:33 ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2001-11-06 22:42 ` Erik Andersen
2001-11-06 22:49 ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2001-11-06 22:53 ` Patrick Mochel
2001-11-06 22:52 ` Erik Andersen
2001-11-06 22:46 ` Ben Greear
2001-11-06 22:50 ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2001-11-07 0:17 ` Martin Dalecki
2001-11-06 22:53 ` J . A . Magallon
2001-11-05 16:49 ` [PATCH] 2.5 PROPOSAL: Replacement for current /proc of shit Jonathan Lundell
2001-11-05 20:46 ` Tim Jansen
2001-11-05 23:04 ` Greg KH
2001-11-05 22:19 ` Tim Jansen
2001-11-05 0:12 ` Rusty Russell
2001-11-05 3:34 ` Daniel Phillips
2001-11-05 22:48 ` Rusty Russell
2001-11-06 10:25 ` Daniel Phillips
2001-11-06 15:46 ` Theodore Tso
2001-11-07 23:35 ` Rusty Russell
[not found] <Pine.LNX.4.33.0111041141100.14150-100000@penguin.transmeta.com>
2001-11-04 19:53 ` PROPOSAL: dot-proc interface [was: /proc stuff] Daniel Phillips
2001-11-04 23:06 Craig Thrall
2001-11-04 23:39 ` Jakob Østergaard
[not found] <20011104214229Z17052-23341+37@humbolt.nl.linux.org>
2001-11-04 23:42 ` Alexander Viro
2001-11-05 0:10 ` Daniel Phillips
2002-01-24 17:42 RFC: booleans and the kernel Jeff Garzik
2002-01-24 18:22 ` Anton Altaparmakov
2002-01-24 18:33 ` Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo
2002-01-24 19:28 ` H. Peter Anvin
2002-01-24 19:34 ` Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo
2002-01-24 19:43 ` H. Peter Anvin
2002-01-24 19:47 ` Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo
2002-01-24 19:46 ` Ingo Oeser
2002-01-24 19:52 ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-01-24 20:03 ` Jeff Garzik
2002-01-24 20:06 ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-01-24 20:14 ` Jeff Garzik
2002-01-24 20:23 ` Alexander Viro
2002-01-24 20:25 ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-01-24 20:35 ` John Levon
2002-01-24 20:15 ` Alexander Viro
2002-01-24 20:21 ` Richard B. Johnson
2002-01-24 20:39 ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-01-24 21:55 ` Richard B. Johnson
2002-01-24 21:57 ` Jeff Garzik
2002-01-24 22:05 ` H. Peter Anvin
2002-01-24 22:13 ` Robert Love
2002-01-24 22:33 ` Xavier Bestel
2002-01-24 22:53 ` Xavier Bestel
2002-01-24 22:59 ` Robert Love
2002-01-24 23:27 ` Xavier Bestel
2002-01-25 6:13 ` Alexander Viro
2002-01-25 8:00 ` Momchil Velikov
2002-01-25 10:51 ` Xavier Bestel
2002-01-25 16:11 ` Olivier Galibert
2002-01-26 7:22 ` Timothy Covell
2002-01-25 7:48 ` Alexander Viro
2002-01-25 23:49 ` J.A. Magallon
2002-01-27 11:27 ` Kai Henningsen
2002-01-25 23:09 ` Timothy Covell
2002-01-25 1:16 ` John Levon
2002-01-25 22:47 ` Timothy Covell
2002-01-25 21:24 ` Timothy Covell
2002-01-24 21:31 ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-01-24 22:19 ` Robert Love
2002-01-24 22:38 ` Robert Love
2002-01-25 22:44 ` Timothy Covell
2002-01-25 3:52 ` Ragnar Hojland Espinosa
2002-01-25 20:39 ` Calin A. Culianu
2002-01-25 23:07 ` Rick Stevens
2002-01-25 19:02 ` Kai Henningsen
2002-01-27 1:33 ` Timothy Covell
2002-01-26 2:56 ` Jamie Lokier
2002-01-27 11:18 ` Kai Henningsen
2002-01-25 22:30 ` Timothy Covell
2002-01-24 22:36 ` Alexander Viro
2002-01-25 6:36 ` Kai Henningsen
[not found] ` <200201250900.g0P8xoL10082@home.ashavan.org.>
2002-01-29 6:36 ` Nix N. Nix
2002-01-25 21:43 ` Timothy Covell
2002-01-24 21:50 ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-01-24 22:21 ` H. Peter Anvin
2002-01-25 15:07 ` Werner Almesberger
2002-01-25 15:21 ` Jakub Jelinek
2002-01-25 16:45 ` H. Peter Anvin
2002-01-25 11:07 ` Helge Hafting
2002-01-24 22:33 ` Chris Wedgwood
2002-01-24 22:44 ` H. Peter Anvin
2002-01-26 10:22 ` Chris Wedgwood
2002-01-25 2:00 ` Erik Andersen
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