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From: Jon Portnoy <portnoy@tellink.net>
To: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: Bitkeeper outrage, old and new
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 13:20:55 -0400 (EDT)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0210201309120.22852-100000@cerberus.localhost> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <E183JQS-0005QQ-00@fencepost.gnu.org>


On Sun, 20 Oct 2002, Richard Stallman wrote:

[snip]
> 
> This is the old "We're not free unless we are `free' to deny freedom
> to others" argument that some (not all) advocates of the BSD license
> often make.  It is a word game intended to render the concept of
> freedom so confused that people can't think about it any more.  Once
> people see through this, it loses its effect.
> 

Agreed. To me, freedom absolutely does _not_ mean the freedom to deny 
freedom. Freedom is something that _must_ be protected by any means 
necessary.

Some people would like to think that it's possible to write code without 
it being "politicized." This is, most certainly, not the case. Any project 
as major as what the GNU project writes, what the kernel developers write, 
or what proprietary developers such as Microsoft write are political 
projects. When large companies develop proprietary software, that's making 
a statement: "we believe it's okay to deny our users freedom."
When developers write free software, that's also making a statement: "we 
believe users are just as deserving of rights as authors."

The issue here is using non-free software to develop free software. This, 
too, makes a political statement: "we don't mind if freedom is being 
denied as long as we're able to work efficiently."

Would it be okay to use Microsoft products to develop free software as 
long as said products made development efficient? In my opinion, Bitkeeper 
is no better than Microsoft due to the 'you may not use this if your 
company develops competing software' issue. This is heavy-handed 
authoritarianism. 

I can understand denying those individuals who develop 
competing software a free seat; I most certainly don't agree with it, but 
I can understand it. What about people who work for large companies that 
may, in fact, have a product that could compete with Bitkeeper? 


  reply	other threads:[~2002-10-20 17:14 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 101+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2002-10-13 22:48 Bitkeeper outragem, old and new Richard Stallman
2002-10-13 22:57 ` William Lee Irwin III
2002-10-13 23:00 ` Rik van Riel
2002-10-14  7:00   ` Xavier Bestel
2002-10-13 23:43 ` Rando Christensen
2002-10-14  0:18 ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-14  6:49   ` Kristian Koehntopp
2002-10-14  7:38     ` Tim Hockin
2002-10-14 11:40     ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2002-10-14 11:37   ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2002-10-14 16:02 ` Christoph Hellwig
     [not found]   ` <E181WHl-00010N-00@fencepost.gnu.org>
     [not found]     ` <20021015193138.A4010@infradead.org>
     [not found]       ` <200210161856.g9GIu57t013710@santafe.santafe.edu>
     [not found]         ` <20021016201328.A24882@infradead.org>
2002-10-19 22:45           ` Bitkeeper outrage, " Richard Stallman
2002-10-19 23:12             ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-19 23:28               ` Jeff Garzik
2002-10-20 15:46                 ` Ben Collins
2002-10-20 17:22                   ` Jeff Garzik
2002-10-20 17:34                     ` Ben Collins
2002-10-20 17:45                       ` Jeff Garzik
2002-10-22  3:13                         ` Richard Stallman
2002-10-25  0:27                           ` Andrew D Kirch
2002-10-20 19:15                       ` Robert Love
2002-10-20 21:42                         ` Xavier Bestel
2002-10-20 21:51                           ` Robert Love
2002-10-20 22:20                             ` Xavier Bestel
2002-10-20 22:23                               ` Robert Love
2002-10-20 22:53                               ` Rik van Riel
2002-10-20 23:35                                 ` Roman Zippel
2002-10-21  0:26                                 ` Rob Landley
2002-10-21 14:33                                   ` Rik van Riel
2002-10-21 15:18                                     ` Daniel Berlin
2002-10-22 11:12                                     ` Vojtech Pavlik
2002-10-22  8:19                                 ` Kristian Koehntopp
2002-10-22 11:06                               ` Vojtech Pavlik
2002-10-20 22:52                             ` Daniel Berlin
2002-10-20 22:59                               ` Robert Love
2002-10-20 23:04                                 ` Daniel Berlin
2002-10-21  0:38                                   ` Rob Landley
2002-10-20 22:59                               ` Ben Collins
2002-10-20 23:04                                 ` Daniel Berlin
2002-10-20 22:47                           ` Daniel Berlin
2002-10-20 22:51                             ` Brad Hards
2002-10-21  7:51                               ` Xavier Bestel
2002-10-21 15:04                                 ` Daniel Berlin
2002-10-20 22:46                       ` Rik van Riel
2002-10-20 19:06                   ` Daniel Berlin
2002-10-19 23:48               ` Roman Zippel
2002-10-20  8:37                 ` Mark Mielke
2002-10-20 16:59               ` Richard Stallman
2002-10-20 17:20                 ` Jon Portnoy [this message]
2002-10-20 22:44                   ` Rik van Riel
2002-10-20 23:05                   ` John Jasen
2002-10-21  0:13                   ` Matt D. Robinson
2002-10-22  3:12                     ` Richard Stallman
2002-10-22  3:18                       ` Rik van Riel
2002-10-22  3:38                       ` Murray J. Root
2002-10-22  5:26                         ` [OT] " Hacksaw
2002-10-22  5:39                           ` Murray J. Root
2002-10-22  6:09                             ` Hacksaw
2002-10-22  6:12                             ` David Lloyd
2002-10-22 13:30                         ` Roman Zippel
2002-10-22 16:23                           ` Rik van Riel
2002-10-22 20:24                           ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2002-10-20 21:42               ` Eric W. Biederman
2002-10-21  2:42                 ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-21  2:20                   ` Rob Landley
2002-10-21  3:16                   ` Eric W. Biederman
2002-10-21  3:42                     ` Alexander Viro
2002-10-22 20:16                       ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2002-10-21  9:39               ` jbradford
2002-10-21 15:08                 ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-20  1:14             ` Nicholas Wourms
2002-10-20  2:00               ` Jon Portnoy
2002-10-20  2:18                 ` Murray J. Root
2002-10-20  8:38                   ` Mark Mielke
2002-10-20  2:46                 ` Nicholas Wourms
2002-10-20  5:58                   ` Zac Hansen
2002-10-20  8:40                     ` Mark Mielke
2002-10-20  9:00                       ` Aaron Lehmann
2002-10-20  9:06                         ` David Lang
2002-10-20  9:21                         ` Alexander Viro
2002-10-20 15:08                         ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2002-10-21 12:46                       ` jbradford
2002-10-22 19:24                         ` Mark Mielke
2002-10-22 19:53                           ` [FLAMEWAR] Bitkeeper waffle jbradford
2002-10-20 12:42                     ` Bitkeeper outrage, old and new Zwane Mwaikambo
2002-10-20 15:05                     ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2002-10-20  8:33             ` Mark Mielke
2002-10-21 17:18               ` Richard Stallman
2002-10-21 17:56                 ` Nicolas Pitre
2002-10-22 20:13                   ` Allen Campbell
2002-10-22 20:32                     ` Nicolas Pitre
2002-10-22 22:28                       ` Allen Campbell
2002-10-23  7:10                   ` Richard Stallman
2002-10-23  7:24                     ` Mark Mielke
2002-10-24 16:54                       ` Richard Stallman
2002-10-14 16:55 ` Bitkeeper outragem, " Jeff Garzik
     [not found] <fa.f8i4p2v.1imcdgq@ifi.uio.no>
     [not found] ` <fa.ebbrv0v.kjq1pk@ifi.uio.no>
2002-10-20 19:53   ` Bitkeeper outrage, " Russ Allbery
2002-10-20 20:04     ` Jeff Garzik
2002-10-20 21:39       ` Russ Allbery
     [not found] <fa.l1b0ccv.p34qob@ifi.uio.no>
     [not found] ` <fa.h9pconv.14mklqe@ifi.uio.no>
2002-10-21 11:02   ` walt
2002-10-21 13:46     ` Roman Zippel

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