From: Daniel Barkalow <barkalow@iabervon.org>
To: Adrian Bunk <bunk@stusta.de>
Cc: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: Linux 2.6.21
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 19:08:12 -0400 (EDT) [thread overview]
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0704271720510.28708@iabervon.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20070426125802.GL3468@stusta.de>
On Thu, 26 Apr 2007, Adrian Bunk wrote:
> Linus said 2.6.20 was a stable kernel. My impression was that at least
> two of the regressions from my 2.6.20 regressions list should have been
> fixed before 2.6.20.
>
> They have both been fixed through -stable, but I also remember a quite
> experienced kernel maintainer running into one of them after 2.6.20 was
> released and spending half a day tracking it down - and my answer was
> "known unfixed regression, first reported more than a month ago".
I think there is an issue with two different things being conflated, and
this causes real stability problems. 2.6.x is both the first kernel in a
series that is judged to be "stable" and the kernel that is the split
between 2.6.x.y and 2.6.x+1. This is a fundamental problem, because it
means that 2.6.x must have all of the problems that are being debugged by
the people who understand the areas they are in, because 2.6.x+1 has to
start so that people who are clueless about all of the areas with
remaining bugs don't spend their time putting more regressions into their
submissions for 2.6.x+1.
It is also a problem because it is easily possible for a problem to exist
in 2.6.x-rcN which can only be correctly fixed by doing intrusive things,
but can be papered over in an obviously-safe way. (E.g., the issue with
legacy interrupt delivery when MSI is enabled). The intrusive patch could
easily break a bunch of unrelated stuff, so that's no good for 2.6.x-rcN,
but papering over bugs is no good for mainline. These bugs have to be
fixed after the split, which means that the version at the fork must
contain the bug.
Furthermore, everybody (people reporting bugs, people fixing them, and
people merging fixes) seem to doze off late in -rc kernels. Having an
announcement of something with a qualitatively different version wakes
them up.
I say have a target of no known regressions in 2.6.21.1, with 2.6.21 being
pretty good, and don't count too much on the stability of 3-number kernel
versions.
> And a serious delay of the next regression-merge window due to unfixed
> regressions might even have the positive side effect of more developers
> becoming interested in fixing the current regressions for getting their
> shiny new regressions^Wfeatures faster into Linus' tree.
I think the "stick" can't be delaying the window, because that's too
broad. I think it has to be making people who are needed for fixing stuff
miss the window. People aren't going to go learn a new area of the kernel
to resolve regressions in it, but they're more likely to keep their own
area clean so that they get to merge every 2 months instead of every 4.
> These are just my personal opinions, and other people consider the
> resulting 2.6.20 and 2.6.21 kernels OK.
I don't think 2.6.x can be OK, by policy. I think 2.6.20.y got to an OK
state eventually, which is to say that there's no need now to use a
2.6.19.y kernel. I think that 2.6.21 isn't OK yet, but I think looking for
an OK 2.6.21-derived kernel is premature still. Ignoring the version
scheme entirely, I think the success condition should be that the "latest
stable version of the Linux kernel" link on www.kernel.org is
always strictly better than all previous links in that spot, and new
features get there eventually (ideally, within 4 months of hitting
mainline). I think this is actually possible, although it would require
changing the policy for this link. And I don't think it requires a change
in what goes into Linus's git repository when.
Furthermore, I think we're a lot closer to an OK kernel derived from
Linus's Apr 25 version than we would be if "2.6.21" had not been released
at that point. It sounds like more items were resolved in the past few
days than in the preceding week.
Incidentally, will you continue to track 2.6.21 regressions against
2.6.20? You said there was at least one that you haven't sent out, and
there's been movement on several others since your last report.
-Daniel
*This .sig left intentionally blank*
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2007-04-27 23:08 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 292+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2007-04-26 3:29 Linux 2.6.21 Linus Torvalds
2007-04-26 4:08 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-26 4:38 ` Dave Jones
2007-04-26 5:02 ` Greg KH
2007-04-26 5:44 ` Nick Piggin
2007-04-26 5:04 ` Willy Tarreau
2007-04-26 6:28 ` Jeff Chua
2007-04-26 6:46 ` Daniel Barkalow
2007-04-26 8:03 ` Oliver Neukum
2007-04-26 12:32 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-26 8:42 ` Soeren Sonnenburg
2007-04-26 9:20 ` Jens Axboe
2007-04-26 10:44 ` Jesper Juhl
2007-04-26 12:58 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-26 15:47 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-26 16:59 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-26 17:20 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-26 17:48 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-26 18:37 ` Krzysztof Halasa
2007-04-26 18:45 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-26 19:55 ` Krzysztof Halasa
2007-04-26 21:34 ` Mel Gorman
2007-04-26 19:11 ` Stephen Clark
2007-04-27 17:14 ` Michael Tokarev
2007-04-27 19:35 ` Stefan Richter
2007-04-28 20:44 ` Krzysztof Halasa
2007-04-26 20:50 ` Alan Cox
2007-04-27 14:58 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-27 16:31 ` Theodore Tso
2007-04-27 19:46 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-27 20:23 ` Stephen Clark
2007-04-28 12:51 ` Markus Rechberger
2007-04-27 21:17 ` Bill Davidsen
2007-04-26 17:02 ` Chuck Ebbert
2007-04-26 18:13 ` Diego Calleja
2007-04-26 18:42 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-26 20:41 ` Diego Calleja
2007-04-26 21:13 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-27 9:33 ` Marek Wawrzyczny
2007-04-28 19:08 ` Martin J. Bligh
2007-04-28 22:11 ` Neil Brown
2007-04-28 22:33 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-28 22:42 ` Neil Brown
2007-04-28 23:14 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-04-29 0:17 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-29 3:03 ` Andrew Morton
2007-04-29 0:07 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-29 3:28 ` Andrew Morton
2007-04-28 19:53 ` Adrian Bunk
[not found] ` <alpine.LFD.0.98.0704281529080. 9964@woody.linux-foundation.org>
2007-04-28 20:27 ` Russell King
2007-04-28 21:43 ` irks with bugzilla (was Re: Linux 2.6.21) Stefan Richter
2007-04-28 22:49 ` Linux 2.6.21 Adrian Bunk
2007-04-28 23:29 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-29 13:15 ` Andi Kleen
2007-04-29 16:07 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-29 16:34 ` Stefan Richter
2007-04-29 16:49 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-04-29 17:37 ` Andi Kleen
2007-04-29 17:50 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-06-14 6:29 ` regression tracking (Re: Linux 2.6.21) Oleg Verych
2007-06-14 15:33 ` Stefan Richter
2007-06-14 16:39 ` Oleg Verych
2007-06-14 16:36 ` Stefan Richter
2007-06-14 17:30 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-06-14 20:33 ` Oleg Verych
2007-06-14 20:46 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-06-15 23:20 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-06-15 23:42 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-06-16 1:32 ` Oleg Verych
2007-06-16 2:55 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-06-16 5:03 ` Oleg Verych
2007-06-16 13:25 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-06-16 12:23 ` Stefan Richter
2007-06-16 12:54 ` Michal Piotrowski
2007-06-17 0:44 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-06-17 9:41 ` [PATCH] (Re: regression tracking (Re: Linux 2.6.21)) Michal Piotrowski
2007-06-17 9:55 ` Andrew Morton
2007-06-17 10:22 ` Michal Piotrowski
2007-06-17 11:47 ` Oleg Verych
2007-06-17 12:13 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-06-17 14:24 ` Oleg Verych
2007-06-17 14:48 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-06-17 17:44 ` david
2007-06-17 21:23 ` Oleg Verych
2007-06-17 12:01 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-06-17 12:45 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-06-17 13:17 ` Michal Piotrowski
2007-06-17 14:02 ` Stefan Richter
2007-06-17 14:29 ` How to improve the quality of the kernel? Adrian Bunk
2007-06-17 16:15 ` Michal Piotrowski
2007-06-17 16:26 ` Stefan Richter
2007-06-17 16:47 ` Michal Piotrowski
2007-06-17 18:24 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-06-17 18:44 ` Stefan Richter
2007-06-17 18:50 ` Natalie Protasevich
2007-06-22 12:01 ` Markus Rechberger
2007-06-22 14:19 ` Stefan Richter
2007-06-22 15:25 ` Oleg Verych
2007-06-17 17:31 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-06-17 17:42 ` Natalie Protasevich
2007-06-17 18:16 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-06-17 19:31 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-06-17 18:53 ` Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz
2007-06-17 18:52 ` Andrew Morton
2007-06-17 19:18 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-06-17 19:33 ` Carlo Wood
2007-06-17 20:00 ` Stefan Richter
2007-06-17 20:10 ` Michal Piotrowski
2007-06-17 21:49 ` Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz
2007-06-17 23:15 ` Stefan Richter
2007-06-18 0:22 ` Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz
2007-06-18 0:32 ` Stefan Richter
2007-06-18 5:09 ` Andrew Morton
2007-06-18 13:23 ` Fortier,Vincent [Montreal]
2007-06-18 22:31 ` Natalie Protasevich
2007-06-18 22:41 ` Martin Bligh
2007-06-18 22:56 ` Natalie Protasevich
2007-06-18 23:59 ` Martin Bligh
2007-06-19 0:09 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-06-19 0:24 ` Natalie Protasevich
2007-06-19 0:42 ` Martin Bligh
2007-06-19 0:55 ` Natalie Protasevich
2007-06-19 1:10 ` Martin Bligh
2007-06-19 4:06 ` This is [Re:] How to improve the quality of the kernel[?] Oleg Verych
2007-06-19 12:48 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-06-19 14:05 ` Oleg Verych
2007-06-19 14:27 ` Stefan Richter
2007-06-19 15:47 ` Oleg Verych
2007-06-19 17:50 ` Stefan Richter
2007-06-19 18:56 ` Oleg Verych
2007-06-19 19:21 ` Stefan Richter
2007-06-19 15:04 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-06-19 15:08 ` Stefan Richter
2007-06-19 17:14 ` Oleg Verych
2007-06-19 15:01 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-06-19 16:53 ` Oleg Verych
2007-06-19 17:04 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-06-19 17:37 ` Natalie Protasevich
2007-06-19 17:51 ` Oleg Verych
2007-06-21 23:51 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-06-21 23:59 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-06-22 0:16 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-06-21 23:48 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-06-19 13:30 ` Don Armstrong
2007-06-19 1:51 ` How to improve the quality of the kernel? Fortier,Vincent [Montreal]
2007-06-19 2:27 ` Natalie Protasevich
2007-06-19 11:06 ` Stefan Richter
2007-06-17 23:15 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-06-18 1:04 ` Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz
2007-06-17 18:54 ` Michal Piotrowski
2007-06-19 0:28 ` regression tracking (Re: Linux 2.6.21) Martin Bligh
2007-06-19 14:49 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-06-19 17:27 ` Martin J. Bligh
2007-04-29 18:50 ` Linux 2.6.21 Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-04-29 18:58 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-29 19:14 ` Andi Kleen
2007-04-29 20:18 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-04-29 20:43 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-29 22:00 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-04-29 22:00 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-29 23:14 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-04-29 20:52 ` Alexey Dobriyan
2007-04-29 22:09 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-04-30 6:30 ` Andrew Morton
2007-04-30 23:08 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-05-04 18:18 ` Bugzilla (was Linux 2.6.21) Martin J. Bligh
2007-04-30 5:43 ` Linux 2.6.21 Willy Tarreau
2007-04-29 17:35 ` Andi Kleen
2007-04-29 17:47 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-29 18:09 ` Andi Kleen
2007-04-29 18:47 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-29 18:59 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-04-29 19:31 ` Russell King
2007-04-29 19:40 ` Diego Calleja
2007-04-29 19:51 ` Michal Piotrowski
2007-04-30 1:50 ` Gene Heskett
2007-04-30 4:54 ` Bernd Eckenfels
2007-04-30 5:06 ` Gene Heskett
2007-04-29 20:17 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-29 20:33 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-29 21:05 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-29 21:24 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-30 7:45 ` Anton Altaparmakov
2007-04-30 18:09 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-30 18:20 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-30 18:27 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-30 18:57 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-30 19:25 ` Vegard Nossum
2007-04-29 22:36 ` Johannes Stezenbach
2007-04-29 23:18 ` Indan Zupancic
2007-04-29 23:41 ` Johannes Stezenbach
2007-04-30 0:05 ` Indan Zupancic
2007-04-30 7:54 ` Matthias Andree
2007-04-29 20:56 ` Diego Calleja
2007-04-29 21:10 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-29 21:16 ` Michal Piotrowski
2007-04-29 21:21 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-29 21:26 ` Michal Piotrowski
2007-04-29 21:52 ` Thomas Gleixner
2007-04-29 22:19 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-29 22:33 ` Thomas Gleixner
2007-04-29 22:37 ` Andi Kleen
2007-04-29 22:48 ` Michal Piotrowski
2007-04-29 23:09 ` Andi Kleen
2007-04-29 22:42 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-29 22:57 ` Michal Piotrowski
2007-04-29 21:51 ` Diego Calleja
2007-04-29 23:19 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-04-29 21:29 ` Francois Romieu
2007-05-02 19:59 ` Lennart Sorensen
2007-04-29 20:01 ` David Miller
2007-04-29 21:26 ` Andi Kleen
2007-04-29 21:41 ` David Miller
2007-04-29 22:15 ` Andi Kleen
2007-04-29 20:38 ` Simon Arlott
2007-04-30 7:34 ` Matthias Andree
2007-04-29 23:55 ` Theodore Tso
2007-04-30 0:13 ` Dave Jones
2007-04-30 1:14 ` Björn Steinbrink
2007-04-30 1:31 ` Andi Kleen
2007-04-30 5:02 ` Kyle Moffett
2007-04-30 7:59 ` Johannes Stezenbach
2007-04-30 16:51 ` David Lang
2007-04-29 7:34 ` Russell King
2007-04-28 22:33 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-28 22:58 ` Markus Rechberger
2007-04-28 23:40 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-29 0:05 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-29 21:27 ` Dave Jones
2007-04-29 21:27 ` David Lang
2007-04-29 22:09 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-29 0:20 ` Bob Tracy
2007-04-29 0:40 ` Markus Rechberger
2007-04-29 0:28 ` Markus Rechberger
2007-04-29 3:40 ` David Miller
2007-04-29 6:43 ` David Lang
2007-04-29 9:34 ` Stefan Richter
2007-04-29 9:40 ` Stefan Richter
2007-04-29 6:01 ` Willy Tarreau
2007-04-29 9:53 ` Stefan Richter
2007-04-29 7:37 ` Russell King
2007-04-28 23:04 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-28 23:58 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-29 3:41 ` David Miller
2007-04-29 8:44 ` Thomas Gleixner
2007-04-30 18:13 ` Borislav Petkov
2007-04-26 17:39 ` Bill Davidsen
2007-04-26 17:44 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-27 21:14 ` Bill Davidsen
2007-04-26 23:32 ` Thomas Gleixner
2007-04-27 0:22 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-27 23:08 ` Daniel Barkalow [this message]
2007-04-26 17:23 ` Bill Davidsen
2007-04-26 18:04 ` Jeff Garzik
2007-04-26 18:36 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-26 18:58 ` Francois Romieu
2007-04-26 19:13 ` Jeff Garzik
2007-04-26 19:19 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-26 19:43 ` Stephen Clark
2007-04-26 19:43 ` Francois Romieu
2007-04-26 19:53 ` Stephen Clark
[not found] ` <4630FC6C.6070902@seclark.us>
[not found] ` <4630FE8D.6090900@garzik.org>
2007-04-26 19:48 ` Stephen Clark
2007-04-27 15:22 ` Stephen Clark
2007-04-26 19:13 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-26 19:14 ` Stephen Clark
2007-04-26 19:32 ` Jeff Garzik
2007-04-26 21:02 ` Gene Heskett
2007-04-26 21:02 ` Gene Heskett
2007-04-27 21:36 ` Bill Davidsen
2007-04-26 6:30 ` Jan De Luyck
2007-04-26 8:23 ` Marat Buharov
2007-04-27 6:30 ` Jan Engelhardt
2007-04-26 8:35 ` Jan Engelhardt
2007-04-26 16:40 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-26 19:02 ` Willy Tarreau
2007-04-27 4:08 ` Mike Galbraith
2007-04-26 19:57 ` Jan Engelhardt
2007-04-26 21:59 ` Mel Gorman
2007-04-26 7:52 linux
2007-04-28 20:42 Tomasz Chmielewski
2007-04-29 20:46 Tomasz Chmielewski
2007-04-29 21:39 ` Arkadiusz Miskiewicz
2007-04-29 21:04 Tomasz Chmielewski
2007-04-30 3:02 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-30 4:57 ` Bernd Eckenfels
2007-04-30 7:43 ` Andrew Morton
2007-04-30 6:25 ` Tomasz Chmielewski
2007-04-30 14:56 ` Gene Heskett
2007-04-30 6:09 Tomasz Chmielewski
2007-04-30 7:01 ` David Miller
2007-04-30 18:10 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-30 10:03 Nicolas Mailhot
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