From: Larry McVoy <lm@bitmover.com>
To: Rik van Riel <riel@conectiva.com.br>
Cc: Jan Harkes <jaharkes@cs.cmu.edu>,
Rob Landley <landley@trommello.org>,
linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: New BK License Problem?
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 09:18:05 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20021007091805.J14596@work.bitmover.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L.0210071303180.22735-100000@imladris.surriel.com>; from riel@conectiva.com.br on Mon, Oct 07, 2002 at 01:06:21PM -0300
On Mon, Oct 07, 2002 at 01:06:21PM -0300, Rik van Riel wrote:
> On Mon, 7 Oct 2002, Jan Harkes wrote:
>
> > I'm expecting that all the BK->gnu patch gateways will be shut down in
> > about 5 years,
>
> I doubt that, the BK->patch "gateway" is a necessary part of
> kernel development. Without it, bitkeeper would stop being
> useful.
Right. It always was and always will be a feature that it is easy to
get in and get *out* of BK. We may be pains in the butt on the license
front but once you are using BK, if you have to get the data out, BK
makes that as pleasant as can possibly be made. See the export and prs
man pages for a starter. It's policy that *every* item of metadata is
accessible via prs.
> I could be wrong, but I'm under the impression that Larry
> doesn't want others to just copy bitkeeper to come up with a
> free tool almost as good as bitkeeper. There is no vendor
> lock-in or anything else going on, afaics.
Exactly right. It wouldn't be so bad if someone were to clone it and come
up with a business model so that they could continue to develop it at the
same or better rate that we develop BK. My real fear is that someone
will do a "good enough" clone to get around the license issues and it
won't be as good as BK and it won't continue get better like BK does.
That would be a "lowering of the bar" in terms of how good is good.
BK has raised the bar for what you should expect from a SCM system and
we're not done. My take is that BK is at the "barely useable" stage, not
remotely close to being perfect. We want to make it perfect. We won't
get there because my definition of perfect means that no operation takes
more than 250 milliseconds and that's pretty impossible if you want to
do any I/O but we keep trying. bk-3.0 is definitely faster and we have
some more perf changes in the queue.
--
---
Larry McVoy lm at bitmover.com http://www.bitmover.com/lm
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2002-10-07 16:12 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 259+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2002-10-04 20:55 New BK License Problem? tom_gall
2002-10-04 21:08 ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-04 21:33 ` tom_gall
2002-10-04 21:38 ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-04 22:16 ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert
2002-10-04 22:36 ` Roman Zippel
2002-10-05 0:04 ` David S. Miller
2002-10-05 0:32 ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-05 1:54 ` John Levon
2002-10-05 10:26 ` Roman Zippel
2002-10-05 10:23 ` David S. Miller
2002-10-05 0:50 ` Rob Landley
2002-10-06 2:17 ` Daniel Berlin
2002-10-04 23:02 ` David S. Miller
2002-10-04 23:33 ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-04 23:28 ` David S. Miller
[not found] ` <20021005003840.GQ710@gallifrey>
[not found] ` <20021004174501.Q835@work.bitmover.com>
[not found] ` <20021005005344.GR710@gallifrey>
[not found] ` <20021004180600.R835@work.bitmover.com>
[not found] ` <20021005011706.GU710@gallifrey>
[not found] ` <20021004185325.V835@work.bitmover.com>
2002-10-05 11:54 ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert
2002-10-05 17:54 ` Ben Collins
2002-10-05 18:25 ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-05 18:35 ` Ben Collins
2002-10-05 18:41 ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2002-10-05 19:06 ` Ben Collins
2002-10-05 19:24 ` Ulrich Drepper
2002-10-05 19:43 ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-05 19:51 ` Nicolas Pitre
2002-10-06 0:42 ` Rik van Riel
2002-10-05 20:21 ` Ulrich Drepper
2002-10-05 23:28 ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-05 23:50 ` Alan Cox
2002-10-05 23:44 ` Alexander Viro
2002-10-05 23:53 ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-06 3:40 ` Jan Harkes
2002-10-06 8:28 ` Jeff Garzik
2002-10-06 8:46 ` Skip Ford
2002-10-06 9:06 ` Jeff Garzik
2002-10-06 9:24 ` David S. Miller
2002-10-06 14:03 ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-06 14:18 ` Ingo Molnar
2002-10-06 15:27 ` Skip Ford
2002-10-08 21:13 ` David Woodhouse
2002-10-08 22:04 ` David S. Miller
2002-10-08 22:06 ` Rik van Riel
2002-10-08 22:15 ` Skip Ford
2002-10-08 22:53 ` Rik van Riel
2002-10-08 22:25 ` David Woodhouse
2002-10-08 22:15 ` David Woodhouse
2002-10-08 22:24 ` Dave Jones
2002-10-08 22:20 ` David S. Miller
2002-10-08 22:31 ` Jeff Garzik
2002-10-08 22:26 ` David Woodhouse
2002-10-08 22:45 ` Dave Jones
2002-10-09 0:51 ` BK kernel commits list David S. Miller
2002-10-09 11:49 ` Skip Ford
2002-10-09 11:58 ` David S. Miller
2002-10-09 12:17 ` David Woodhouse
2002-10-09 12:12 ` David S. Miller
2002-10-09 14:11 ` Jeff Garzik
2002-10-09 14:44 ` Ben Collins
2002-10-09 14:55 ` David Woodhouse
2002-10-09 14:58 ` Ben Collins
2002-10-09 19:48 ` Jeff Garzik
2002-10-09 19:59 ` Robert Love
2002-10-09 20:32 ` Skip Ford
2002-10-09 20:34 ` Jeff Garzik
2002-10-09 19:59 ` Ben Collins
2002-10-09 20:52 ` David Woodhouse
2002-10-09 21:02 ` Robert Love
2002-10-09 20:41 ` David Woodhouse
2002-10-06 0:49 ` New BK License Problem? Rik van Riel
2002-10-06 4:43 ` David S. Miller
2002-10-06 5:50 ` Linus Torvalds
2002-10-06 7:43 ` Skip Ford
2002-10-06 8:13 ` Jeff Garzik
2002-10-06 9:21 ` David S. Miller
2002-10-06 16:38 ` Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo
2002-10-06 17:02 ` Alan Cox
2002-10-06 17:12 ` Russell King
2002-10-06 21:06 ` Rik van Riel
2002-10-06 17:03 ` Skip Ford
2002-10-06 23:05 ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-07 0:42 ` Rob Landley
2002-10-06 8:00 ` Jeff Garzik
2002-10-06 11:04 ` Ingo Molnar
2002-10-06 10:57 ` David S. Miller
2002-10-06 11:24 ` Ingo Molnar
2002-10-06 10:59 ` David S. Miller
2002-10-06 12:04 ` BK MetaData " Ingo Molnar
2002-10-06 11:52 ` David S. Miller
2002-10-06 12:18 ` jbradford
2002-10-06 12:35 ` jw schultz
2002-10-06 12:18 ` Ingo Molnar
2002-10-06 16:18 ` Daniel Berlin
2002-10-06 13:48 ` Russell King
2002-10-06 14:10 ` Ingo Molnar
2002-10-06 14:08 ` Russell King
2002-10-06 16:58 ` Alan Cox
2002-10-06 17:06 ` jbradford
2002-10-06 19:12 ` Marek Habersack
2002-10-06 14:23 ` jbradford
2002-10-06 19:39 ` Linus Torvalds
2002-10-06 20:00 ` Ingo Molnar
2002-10-06 22:52 ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-07 6:08 ` Ingo Molnar
2002-10-07 6:07 ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-06 17:17 ` Jes Sorensen
2002-10-06 17:38 ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-06 17:41 ` Alan Cox
2002-10-06 17:45 ` Jes Sorensen
2002-10-06 22:49 ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-06 12:10 ` New BK " Ingo Molnar
2002-10-06 4:25 ` David S. Miller
2002-10-06 9:00 ` Jeff Garzik
2002-10-06 3:35 ` Jan Harkes
2002-10-05 19:47 ` Nicolas Pitre
2002-10-05 19:54 ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-05 19:56 ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-07 2:01 ` Ben Collins
2002-10-07 2:10 ` Rik van Riel
2002-10-07 2:29 ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-07 2:38 ` Rik van Riel
2002-10-07 3:07 ` Rik van Riel
2002-10-10 3:48 ` rsync kernel tree " jw schultz
2002-10-06 22:03 ` Aaron Lehmann
2002-10-06 22:33 ` Rik van Riel
2002-10-06 22:45 ` Aaron Lehmann
2002-10-06 22:59 ` Rik van Riel
2002-10-06 23:15 ` Pavel Machek
2002-10-07 19:06 ` Nicolas Pitre
2002-10-07 20:19 ` Alan Cox
2002-10-07 20:24 ` Nicolas Pitre
2002-10-07 20:37 ` Pavel Machek
2002-10-07 20:54 ` Nicolas Pitre
2002-10-07 21:10 ` Pavel Machek
2002-10-08 9:11 ` Vojtech Pavlik
2002-10-08 1:05 ` Mark Mielke
2002-10-06 0:34 ` Rik van Riel
2002-10-06 0:45 ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-05 19:15 ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-05 19:46 ` jbradford
2002-10-06 22:18 ` Daniel Phillips
2002-10-06 23:54 ` Jeff Dike
2002-10-06 22:57 ` Rik van Riel
2002-10-06 22:57 ` Daniel Phillips
2002-10-06 13:46 ` Ingo Molnar
2002-10-06 13:59 ` Ingo Molnar
2002-10-06 14:56 ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-06 15:22 ` Ingo Molnar
2002-10-06 15:15 ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-06 15:39 ` Alexandre Dulaunoy
2002-10-07 1:21 ` Rob Landley
2002-10-07 6:29 ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-07 2:27 ` Rob Landley
2002-10-07 15:43 ` Jan Harkes
2002-10-07 16:06 ` Rik van Riel
2002-10-07 16:18 ` Larry McVoy [this message]
2002-10-06 16:30 ` Werner Almesberger
2002-10-07 9:37 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2002-10-07 14:50 ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-07 18:45 ` Abramo Bagnara
2002-10-06 21:31 ` Miquel van Smoorenburg
2002-10-06 22:05 ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-06 22:16 ` Rik van Riel
2002-10-06 22:19 ` Robert Love
2002-10-06 22:36 ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-06 23:22 ` Hans Reiser
2002-10-06 13:59 ` Ben Collins
2002-10-06 14:14 ` Ingo Molnar
2002-10-06 14:53 ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-06 15:37 ` Ingo Molnar
2002-10-06 22:11 ` BK is *evil* corporate software [was Re: New BK License Problem?] Pavel Machek
2002-10-07 18:49 ` BK is *evil* corporate software David S. Miller
2002-10-07 20:12 ` Alan Cox
2002-10-07 20:14 ` Pavel Machek
2002-10-07 21:23 ` Roman Zippel
2002-10-07 18:51 ` BK is *evil* corporate software [was Re: New BK License Problem?] Mike Galbraith
2002-10-07 21:31 ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-09 23:34 ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2002-10-09 23:50 ` BK is *evil* corporate software David S. Miller
2002-10-10 1:08 ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-10 1:47 ` Keith Owens
2002-10-10 8:09 ` Henning Schmiedehausen
2002-10-10 8:28 ` Off topic, bandwidth wasting, waffle about Bit Keeper jbradford
2002-10-09 23:55 ` BK is *evil* corporate software [was Re: New BK License Problem?] Larry McVoy
2002-10-10 3:50 ` Mark Mielke
2002-10-10 4:16 ` Derek D. Martin
2002-10-10 4:56 ` Mark Mielke
2002-10-10 7:33 ` Jirka David
2002-10-10 7:26 ` Rogier Wolff
2002-10-10 13:36 ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-10 14:04 ` yodaiken
2002-10-10 16:14 ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2002-10-10 16:25 ` Jeff Garzik
2002-10-10 16:52 ` Richard B. Johnson
2002-10-10 17:28 ` Alan Cox
2002-10-10 16:38 ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-10 18:57 ` Eli Carter
2002-10-10 19:01 ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-10 0:03 ` Jamie Lokier
2002-10-10 7:31 ` Rogier Wolff
2002-10-07 18:56 ` tom_gall
2002-10-07 20:44 ` Pavel Machek
2002-10-07 20:55 ` Rik van Riel
2002-10-07 21:28 ` BK is *evil* corporate software tom_gall
2002-10-07 21:36 ` BK is *evil* corporate software [was Re: New BK License Problem?] Alexander Viro
2002-10-17 17:52 ` 2.5.43 disk repartitioning problems Dave Olien
2002-10-17 18:04 ` Dave Olien
2002-10-18 19:45 ` Bill Davidsen
2002-10-18 22:17 ` Dave Olien
2002-10-19 17:39 ` Bill Davidsen
2002-10-07 20:30 ` BK is *evil* corporate software [was Re: New BK License Problem?] Rik van Riel
2002-10-06 0:27 ` New BK License Problem? Rik van Riel
2002-10-06 0:32 ` Ben Collins
2002-10-06 0:53 ` Rik van Riel
2002-10-05 13:10 ` Hans Reiser
2002-10-05 22:53 ` Murray J. Root
2002-10-05 23:21 ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-05 23:49 ` Murray J. Root
2002-10-06 0:48 ` Rik van Riel
2002-10-06 19:21 ` Mark Mielke
2002-10-05 13:17 ` Hans Reiser
2002-10-05 13:48 ` FD Cami
2002-10-05 13:41 ` Hans Reiser
[not found] <fa.fl3olav.51slo1@ifi.uio.no>
[not found] ` <fa.chp9htv.i4632g@ifi.uio.no>
2002-10-05 14:30 ` walt
2002-10-05 15:10 ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-05 15:30 ` jbradford
2002-10-05 15:57 ` tom_gall
2002-10-05 23:44 ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-06 0:19 ` Rik van Riel
2002-10-06 0:30 ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-06 0:51 ` Rik van Riel
2002-10-06 0:53 ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-06 1:00 ` Robert Love
2002-10-06 5:24 ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-06 7:58 ` Willy Tarreau
2002-10-05 16:18 ` Hans Reiser
2002-10-05 17:28 ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-05 19:12 ` Roman Zippel
2002-10-06 17:43 ` Troy Benjegerdes
2002-10-06 17:58 ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-06 18:33 ` jbradford
2002-10-06 18:38 ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-06 21:17 ` Florian Weimer
2002-10-06 21:26 ` Rik van Riel
2002-10-06 21:33 ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-07 5:24 ` jbradford
2002-10-06 18:56 ` FD Cami
2002-10-06 18:39 ` Roman Zippel
2002-10-06 21:22 ` Rik van Riel
2002-10-07 1:29 ` Rob Landley
2002-10-10 21:19 ` Pavel Machek
2002-10-11 13:39 ` Rik van Riel
2002-10-07 17:10 Craig Dickson
2002-10-07 17:35 ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-07 19:30 ` Vojtech Pavlik
2002-10-07 20:37 ` Nicolas Pitre
2002-10-07 17:18 Craig Dickson
2002-10-07 17:19 ` David Lang
2002-10-07 17:43 ` Larry McVoy
2002-10-07 21:27 Hell.Surfers
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=20021007091805.J14596@work.bitmover.com \
--to=lm@bitmover.com \
--cc=jaharkes@cs.cmu.edu \
--cc=landley@trommello.org \
--cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \
--cc=riel@conectiva.com.br \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).