From: Jaroslav Kysela <perex@suse.cz>
To: "Tomasz Kłoczko" <kloczek@rudy.mif.pg.gda.pl>
Cc: Pete Zaitcev <zaitcev@redhat.com>,
Alistair John Strachan <s0348365@sms.ed.ac.uk>,
Adrian Bunk <bunk@stusta.de>,
Olivier Galibert <galibert@pobox.com>,
Tomasz Torcz <zdzichu@irc.pl>,
Jan Engelhardt <jengelh@linux01.gwdg.de>, Andi Kleen <ak@suse.de>,
ALSA development <alsa-devel@alsa-project.org>,
James@superbug.demon.co.uk, sailer@ife.ee.ethz.ch,
linux-sound@vger.kernel.org, zab@zabbo.net,
kyle@parisc-linux.org, parisc-linux@lists.parisc-linux.org,
jgarzik@pobox.com, Thorsten Knabe <linux@thorsten-knabe.de>,
zwane@commfireservices.com, LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [OT] ALSA userspace API complexity
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 13:23:23 +0100 (CET) [thread overview]
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0601051305240.10350@tm8103.perex-int.cz> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.63.0601051253550.17086@rudy.mif.pg.gda.pl>
[-- Attachment #1: Type: TEXT/PLAIN, Size: 2699 bytes --]
On Thu, 5 Jan 2006, Tomasz Kłoczko wrote:
> On Wed, 4 Jan 2006, Jaroslav Kysela wrote:
> > Well, the ALSA primary goal is to be the complete HAL not hidding the
> > extra hardware capabilities to applications. So API might look a bit
> > complicated for the first glance, but the ALSA interface code for simple
> > applications is not so big, isn't?
>
> Sorry Jaroslav byt this not unix way.
> Wny applications myst know anything about hardware layer ?
> In unix way all this details are rolled on kernel layer.
It means that you are saying that kernel should be bigger and bigger.
Please, see the graphics APIs. Why we have X servers in user space (and
only some supporting code is in the kernel) then? It's because if we
would move everything into kernel it will be even more bloated. The kernel
should do really the basic things like direct hardware access, DMA
transfer etc.
> > Also, note that app developers are not forced to use ALSA directly -
> > there is a lot of "portable" sound API libraries having an ALSA
> > backend doing this job quite effectively. We can add a simple (like
> > OSS) API layer into alsa-lib, but I'm not sure, if it's worth to do
> > it. Perhaps, adding some support functions for the easy PCM device
> > initialization might be a good idea.
>
> If we have so many "portable" sound API libraries .. look most of them
> uses the same way for handle sound on kernel interaction. Is this
> complicated ALSA way is realy neccessary ? For example .. jackd can use
> OSS API for handle sound device.
The grounds of ALSA APIs are not complicated. The complicated are the
extra features (like stream linking) which can be included conditionaly.
Note that during API development, mostly users requesting extra features
were speak loudly, others were only watching.
We know that the reduction requests have points for embedded systems etc.
And we will definitely try to sort "real-core" and "extra" things.
Also, note that if OSS used a library to access to sound devices, we won't
ever have such problems with the OSS API redirection to another API.
I already created a prototype of OSS API redirector (part of alsa-oss
package), see:
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/alsa/alsa-oss/oss-redir/README?rev=1.1&view=markup
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/alsa/alsa-oss/oss-redir/oss-redir.h?rev=1.6&view=markup
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/alsa/alsa-oss/oss-redir/oss-redir.c?rev=1.9&view=markup
But it's a question, if OSS application developers take this proposal.
Jaroslav
-----
Jaroslav Kysela <perex@suse.cz>
Linux Kernel Sound Maintainer
ALSA Project, SUSE Labs
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2006-01-05 12:23 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 293+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2005-07-26 15:08 [2.6 patch] schedule obsolete OSS drivers for removal Adrian Bunk
2005-07-26 15:41 ` Jesper Juhl
2005-07-26 15:46 ` Adrian Bunk
2005-07-26 15:41 ` Thomas Sailer
2005-07-26 15:48 ` Jeff Garzik
2005-07-26 16:04 ` Adrian Bunk
2005-07-26 16:49 ` Lee Revell
2005-07-26 17:49 ` John W. Linville
2005-07-26 17:03 ` Gene Heskett
2005-07-26 18:13 ` Adrian Bunk
2005-07-27 3:19 ` Gene Heskett
2005-07-26 15:51 ` Lee Revell
2005-07-26 15:57 ` Jeff Garzik
2005-07-26 16:02 ` Lee Revell
2005-07-27 18:24 ` Adrian Bunk
2005-07-27 20:31 ` John W. Linville
2005-07-27 20:43 ` Jeff Garzik
2005-07-28 14:00 ` Alan Cox
2005-07-28 13:43 ` Jaroslav Kysela
2005-07-28 14:15 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-01-03 13:14 ` Adrian Bunk
2005-07-26 16:30 ` Adrian Bunk
2005-07-26 16:17 ` Andrew Haninger
2005-07-31 19:29 ` Adrian Bunk
2005-07-26 16:27 ` Zach Brown
2005-07-26 21:41 ` Krzysztof Halasa
2005-07-26 23:38 ` Zoran Dzelajlija
2005-07-27 23:28 ` Lee Revell
2005-07-27 23:58 ` Rogério Brito
2005-07-28 8:09 ` Takashi Iwai
2005-07-31 19:36 ` Adrian Bunk
2005-07-27 18:39 ` Kyle McMartin
2005-07-28 3:01 ` [parisc-linux] " Randolph Chung
2005-07-28 14:14 ` Adrian Bunk
2005-07-28 15:04 ` Thorsten Knabe
2005-07-28 15:46 ` Adrian Bunk
2005-07-28 18:33 ` [Alsa-devel] " Lee Revell
2005-07-29 6:52 ` Jaroslav Kysela
2005-07-29 15:16 ` Adrian Bunk
2005-07-29 15:58 ` Thorsten Knabe
2005-07-31 19:39 ` Adrian Bunk
2005-08-01 14:26 ` Andrew Haninger
2005-08-02 0:13 ` Thorsten Knabe
2005-08-02 5:05 ` Lee Revell
2005-08-02 12:59 ` James Courtier-Dutton
2005-08-02 15:55 ` Thorsten Knabe
2005-07-31 13:38 ` James Courtier-Dutton
2006-01-03 13:21 ` Andi Kleen
2006-01-03 13:47 ` Alistair John Strachan
2006-01-03 13:52 ` Andi Kleen
2006-01-03 13:58 ` David Lang
2006-01-03 14:33 ` Alistair John Strachan
2006-01-03 14:34 ` Alistair John Strachan
2006-01-03 14:01 ` Alistair John Strachan
2006-01-03 18:24 ` Lee Revell
[not found] ` <mailman.1136300646.6679.linux-kernel2news@redhat.com>
2006-01-04 11:13 ` Pete Zaitcev
2006-01-04 11:16 ` Jaroslav Kysela
2006-01-03 14:38 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-01-03 14:41 ` Alistair John Strachan
2006-01-03 14:50 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-01-03 15:22 ` Alistair John Strachan
2006-01-03 16:05 ` Tomasz Torcz
2006-01-03 16:29 ` Alistair John Strachan
2006-01-03 17:03 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-03 17:16 ` Alistair John Strachan
2006-01-03 19:24 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-03 19:37 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-01-03 21:40 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-03 23:10 ` Tomasz Kłoczko
2006-01-04 0:33 ` Thomas Sailer
2006-01-04 1:48 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-04 9:03 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-01-04 9:37 ` [OT] ALSA userspace API complexity Alistair John Strachan
[not found] ` <mailman.1136368805.14661.linux-kernel2news@redhat.com>
2006-01-04 11:00 ` Pete Zaitcev
2006-01-04 11:35 ` Jaroslav Kysela
2006-01-04 11:47 ` Pete Zaitcev
2006-01-04 14:23 ` Alistair John Strachan
2006-01-05 11:41 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-05 12:01 ` Tomasz Kłoczko
2006-01-05 12:23 ` Jaroslav Kysela [this message]
2006-01-05 14:21 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-05 14:56 ` [parisc-linux] " Alan Cox
2006-01-05 21:14 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-01-05 15:07 ` Tomasz Kłoczko
2006-01-05 16:14 ` Takashi Iwai
2006-01-05 17:19 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-05 20:13 ` Tomasz Kłoczko
2006-01-07 14:32 ` Takashi Iwai
2006-01-08 2:03 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-08 2:26 ` Martin Drab
2006-01-08 13:21 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-08 13:32 ` Jaroslav Kysela
2006-01-08 23:18 ` Pavel Machek
2006-01-09 0:33 ` [Alsa-devel] " Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-09 12:24 ` Takashi Iwai
2006-01-09 17:49 ` Thierry Vignaud
2006-01-08 9:42 ` Jaroslav Kysela
2006-01-08 13:04 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-08 13:23 ` Jaroslav Kysela
2006-01-08 13:38 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-09 0:30 ` [Alsa-devel] " Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-05 23:06 ` Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-05 23:39 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 23:56 ` Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-06 0:03 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 23:40 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 23:59 ` Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-06 15:03 ` Stefan Smietanowski
2006-01-06 15:48 ` Erik Mouw
2006-01-06 18:37 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-10 9:43 ` Jaroslav Kysela
2006-01-10 13:42 ` Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-10 14:08 ` Jaroslav Kysela
2006-01-10 14:17 ` Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-10 20:13 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-06 0:14 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-06 0:29 ` Martin Drab
2006-01-06 0:57 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-06 1:49 ` Martin Drab
2006-01-06 1:21 ` Zan Lynx
2006-01-06 15:17 ` Stefan Smietanowski
2006-01-09 23:55 ` jerome lacoste
2006-01-10 2:29 ` Stefan Smietanowski
2006-01-06 3:14 ` Edgar Toernig
2006-01-06 3:33 ` Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-06 11:34 ` Florian Schmidt
2006-01-06 7:47 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-01-07 14:45 ` Takashi Iwai
[not found] ` <Pine.LNX.4.61.0601080225500.17252@zeus.compusonic.fi>
2006-01-08 9:24 ` [Alsa-devel] " Jaroslav Kysela
2006-01-09 13:05 ` René Rebe
2006-01-09 15:10 ` Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-09 17:12 ` René Rebe
2006-01-09 21:58 ` David Lang
2006-01-09 23:20 ` John Rigg
2006-01-09 23:21 ` David Lang
2006-01-10 0:16 ` John Rigg
2006-01-10 0:29 ` David Lang
2006-01-10 0:44 ` Alan Cox
2006-01-10 1:56 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-10 1:27 ` John Rigg
2006-01-10 1:02 ` John Rigg
2006-01-10 0:48 ` Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-10 2:00 ` John Rigg
2006-01-10 2:17 ` Hannu Savolainen
[not found] ` <Pine.LNX.4.61.0601090010090.31763@zeus.compusonic.fi>
2006-01-10 10:51 ` Jaroslav Kysela
[not found] ` <Pine.LNX.4.61.0601101550390.24146@zeus.compusonic.fi>
2006-01-10 14:17 ` Jaroslav Kysela
2006-01-10 14:39 ` Adam Tlałka
2006-01-05 18:56 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 22:39 ` Joern Nettingsmeier
2006-01-05 23:44 ` Tomasz Kłoczko
2006-01-05 23:49 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-06 0:22 ` Joern Nettingsmeier
2006-01-06 1:30 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-06 2:20 ` Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-10 9:54 ` Jaroslav Kysela
2006-01-10 13:50 ` Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-06 0:00 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-05 12:47 ` Leonard Milcin Jr.
2006-01-04 12:13 ` [2.6 patch] schedule obsolete OSS drivers for removal Joern Nettingsmeier
2006-01-04 12:35 ` Andi Kleen
2006-01-04 12:41 ` Jaroslav Kysela
2006-01-04 17:31 ` Alistair John Strachan
2006-01-04 17:48 ` Takashi Iwai
2006-01-05 6:42 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-03 18:28 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-03 19:30 ` Thomas Sailer
2006-01-03 19:37 ` Jaroslav Kysela
2006-01-03 19:56 ` Thomas Sailer
2006-01-03 20:06 ` Jaroslav Kysela
2006-01-04 0:23 ` Thomas Sailer
2006-01-03 22:39 ` James Courtier-Dutton
2006-01-03 20:22 ` Takashi Iwai
2006-01-03 20:37 ` Tomasz Torcz
2006-01-03 20:44 ` Takashi Iwai
2006-01-03 20:56 ` Jesper Juhl
2006-01-03 21:56 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-01-03 22:11 ` Jesper Juhl
2006-01-04 11:46 ` Takashi Iwai
2006-01-04 14:46 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-01-04 16:43 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-05 10:57 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-01-05 12:44 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-05 18:33 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 20:03 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-05 20:05 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 20:18 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-05 20:28 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 20:32 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-05 20:39 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 20:32 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 20:54 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-05 21:01 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 21:43 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-05 21:47 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 23:35 ` Jesper Juhl
2006-01-06 0:04 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-06 0:08 ` Jesper Juhl
2006-01-06 1:36 ` Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-06 9:54 ` James Courtier-Dutton
2006-01-06 13:37 ` Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-06 10:34 ` Gabor Gombas
2006-01-06 12:48 ` Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-07 14:09 ` Takashi Iwai
2006-01-07 14:57 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-08 0:21 ` Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-06 2:40 ` Diego Calleja
2006-01-06 14:57 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-06 20:26 ` Jaroslav Kysela
2006-01-07 0:40 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-07 0:56 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-05 23:19 ` Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-05 23:33 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-06 13:20 ` caszonyi
2006-01-06 13:43 ` James Courtier-Dutton
2006-01-06 18:24 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-06 18:27 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-04 20:12 ` Kyle Moffett
2006-01-04 22:25 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-03 22:13 ` Tomasz Torcz
2006-01-03 23:10 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-01-03 23:51 ` Tomasz Kłoczko
2006-01-04 0:03 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-01-04 0:46 ` Tomasz Kłoczko
2006-01-04 1:01 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-01-04 2:51 ` Tomasz Kłoczko
2006-01-04 8:50 ` Alan Cox
2006-01-04 13:21 ` Greg Louis
2006-01-04 14:41 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-01-04 10:37 ` tapas
2006-01-04 17:28 ` Alistair John Strachan
2006-01-05 7:14 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-01-04 17:54 ` Takashi Iwai
2006-01-04 18:17 ` Florian Schmidt
2006-01-04 19:28 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-04 19:52 ` Florian Schmidt
2006-01-05 7:11 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-01-05 11:15 ` Takashi Iwai
2006-01-05 21:20 ` Jim Crilly
2006-01-05 7:11 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 19:09 ` Edgar Toernig
2006-01-05 19:29 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 20:19 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 21:05 ` Edgar Toernig
2006-01-05 21:10 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 20:24 ` Edgar Toernig
2006-01-05 20:29 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 7:16 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 11:43 ` Florian Schmidt
2006-01-05 17:48 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-08 21:07 ` Ville Herva
2006-01-08 21:44 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-09 8:16 ` Ville Herva
2006-01-09 13:52 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-09 14:22 ` Ville Herva
2006-01-09 15:18 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-09 16:21 ` Ville Herva
2006-01-09 16:22 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 18:36 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 18:47 ` Tomasz Torcz
2006-01-05 19:10 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 19:15 ` Florian Schmidt
2006-01-04 0:28 ` Stefan Smietanowski
2006-01-04 1:38 ` Tomasz Kłoczko
2006-01-04 9:48 ` Stefan Smietanowski
2006-01-05 3:03 ` Peter Bortas
2006-01-05 7:13 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-01-05 7:19 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 8:41 ` Stefan Smietanowski
2006-01-05 9:57 ` Peter Bortas
2006-01-03 17:09 ` Jan Engelhardt
[not found] <4uzow-1g5-13@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <5r0aY-2If-41@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <5r3Ca-88G-81@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <5reGV-6YD-23@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <5reGV-6YD-21@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <5rf9X-7yf-25@gated-at.bofh.it>
2006-01-04 11:56 ` [OT] ALSA userspace API complexity Patrizio Bassi
2006-01-04 18:07 ` Florian Schmidt
2006-01-04 18:46 ` Alistair John Strachan
2006-01-05 18:59 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 20:06 ` Patrizio Bassi
2006-01-05 20:11 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 20:47 ` Patrizio Bassi
[not found] <5rdrx-4Yl-43@gated-at.bofh.it>
2006-01-05 14:01 ` Heikki Orsila
2006-01-05 14:24 ` Jaroslav Kysela
2006-01-05 14:45 ` Heikki Orsila
2006-01-10 9:22 ` Jaroslav Kysela
2006-01-10 11:50 ` Heikki Orsila
2006-01-05 14:51 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-05 15:26 ` Alexander E. Patrakov
2006-01-05 15:30 ` Jaroslav Kysela
2006-01-05 16:01 ` Alexander E. Patrakov
2006-01-05 18:11 ` Florian Schmidt
2006-01-05 15:33 ` Jaroslav Kysela
2006-01-05 16:48 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-05 15:27 ` Heikki Orsila
2006-01-05 14:49 ` Alistair John Strachan
2006-01-08 7:19 linux
2006-01-08 22:08 ` Hannu Savolainen
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