From: Jaroslav Kysela <perex@suse.cz>
To: Olivier Galibert <galibert@pobox.com>
Cc: Martin Drab <drab@kepler.fjfi.cvut.cz>,
Takashi Iwai <tiwai@suse.de>,
ALSA development <alsa-devel@alsa-project.org>,
linux-sound@vger.kernel.org, LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [OT] ALSA userspace API complexity
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 14:32:40 +0100 (CET) [thread overview]
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0601081424560.10981@tm8103.perex-int.cz> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20060108132122.GB96834@dspnet.fr.eu.org>
On Sun, 8 Jan 2006, Olivier Galibert wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 08, 2006 at 03:26:18AM +0100, Martin Drab wrote:
> > On Sun, 8 Jan 2006, Olivier Galibert wrote:
> >
> > > > And if the application doesn't support, who and where converts it?
> > > > With OSS API, it's a job of the kernel.
> > >
> > > Once again no. Nothing prevents the kernel to forward the data to
> > > userland daemons depending on a userspace-uploaded configuration.
> >
> > I think that the point was, that switching from userspace to kernelspace
> > then to userspace again and back to kernelspace in order to do something,
> > that could have been done directly in the userspace, and though could save
> > those two unnecessary switches, is an unnecessary overhead, which may not
> > necessarily be that insignificant if it's done so often (which for
> > streaming audio is the case).
>
> You all seem to forget that dmix is in userspace in a different task
> too.
Because it is really not. The mixing is done directly to the mmaped DMA
buffer.
> > Why doing things complicated when there is no evident gain from it,
> > or is there?
>
> No evident gain? Wow. What about:
> - stopping crippling the OSS api
We're not doing that. We're just showing that OSS API and useability has
it's own problems, too.
> - having a real kernel api for which you can make different libraries
> depending on the need of the users
>
> - stop making a fundamentally unsecure shared library mandatory
ALSA kernel API is real and binary compatible. If someone require to
write an own library, we will document this API, of course, too.
> - opening the possibility of writing plugins to people without a PhD
> in lattice QCD.
Already done. We have official plugin SDK in alsa-lib to create user space
drivers. If you have some questions or bug-reports (missing docs etc),
please, fill a bug report.
Also, you can use very simple LADSPA plugin style, because alsa-lib can
use LADSPA plugins directly, too.
Jaroslav
-----
Jaroslav Kysela <perex@suse.cz>
Linux Kernel Sound Maintainer
ALSA Project, SUSE Labs
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2006-01-08 13:32 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 293+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2005-07-26 15:08 [2.6 patch] schedule obsolete OSS drivers for removal Adrian Bunk
2005-07-26 15:41 ` Jesper Juhl
2005-07-26 15:46 ` Adrian Bunk
2005-07-26 15:41 ` Thomas Sailer
2005-07-26 15:48 ` Jeff Garzik
2005-07-26 16:04 ` Adrian Bunk
2005-07-26 16:49 ` Lee Revell
2005-07-26 17:49 ` John W. Linville
2005-07-26 17:03 ` Gene Heskett
2005-07-26 18:13 ` Adrian Bunk
2005-07-27 3:19 ` Gene Heskett
2005-07-26 15:51 ` Lee Revell
2005-07-26 15:57 ` Jeff Garzik
2005-07-26 16:02 ` Lee Revell
2005-07-27 18:24 ` Adrian Bunk
2005-07-27 20:31 ` John W. Linville
2005-07-27 20:43 ` Jeff Garzik
2005-07-28 14:00 ` Alan Cox
2005-07-28 13:43 ` Jaroslav Kysela
2005-07-28 14:15 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-01-03 13:14 ` Adrian Bunk
2005-07-26 16:30 ` Adrian Bunk
2005-07-26 16:17 ` Andrew Haninger
2005-07-31 19:29 ` Adrian Bunk
2005-07-26 16:27 ` Zach Brown
2005-07-26 21:41 ` Krzysztof Halasa
2005-07-26 23:38 ` Zoran Dzelajlija
2005-07-27 23:28 ` Lee Revell
2005-07-27 23:58 ` Rogério Brito
2005-07-28 8:09 ` Takashi Iwai
2005-07-31 19:36 ` Adrian Bunk
2005-07-27 18:39 ` Kyle McMartin
2005-07-28 3:01 ` [parisc-linux] " Randolph Chung
2005-07-28 14:14 ` Adrian Bunk
2005-07-28 15:04 ` Thorsten Knabe
2005-07-28 15:46 ` Adrian Bunk
2005-07-28 18:33 ` [Alsa-devel] " Lee Revell
2005-07-29 6:52 ` Jaroslav Kysela
2005-07-29 15:16 ` Adrian Bunk
2005-07-29 15:58 ` Thorsten Knabe
2005-07-31 19:39 ` Adrian Bunk
2005-08-01 14:26 ` Andrew Haninger
2005-08-02 0:13 ` Thorsten Knabe
2005-08-02 5:05 ` Lee Revell
2005-08-02 12:59 ` James Courtier-Dutton
2005-08-02 15:55 ` Thorsten Knabe
2005-07-31 13:38 ` James Courtier-Dutton
2006-01-03 13:21 ` Andi Kleen
2006-01-03 13:47 ` Alistair John Strachan
2006-01-03 13:52 ` Andi Kleen
2006-01-03 13:58 ` David Lang
2006-01-03 14:33 ` Alistair John Strachan
2006-01-03 14:34 ` Alistair John Strachan
2006-01-03 14:01 ` Alistair John Strachan
2006-01-03 18:24 ` Lee Revell
[not found] ` <mailman.1136300646.6679.linux-kernel2news@redhat.com>
2006-01-04 11:13 ` Pete Zaitcev
2006-01-04 11:16 ` Jaroslav Kysela
2006-01-03 14:38 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-01-03 14:41 ` Alistair John Strachan
2006-01-03 14:50 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-01-03 15:22 ` Alistair John Strachan
2006-01-03 16:05 ` Tomasz Torcz
2006-01-03 16:29 ` Alistair John Strachan
2006-01-03 17:03 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-03 17:16 ` Alistair John Strachan
2006-01-03 19:24 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-03 19:37 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-01-03 21:40 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-03 23:10 ` Tomasz Kłoczko
2006-01-04 0:33 ` Thomas Sailer
2006-01-04 1:48 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-04 9:03 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-01-04 9:37 ` [OT] ALSA userspace API complexity Alistair John Strachan
[not found] ` <mailman.1136368805.14661.linux-kernel2news@redhat.com>
2006-01-04 11:00 ` Pete Zaitcev
2006-01-04 11:35 ` Jaroslav Kysela
2006-01-04 11:47 ` Pete Zaitcev
2006-01-04 14:23 ` Alistair John Strachan
2006-01-05 11:41 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-05 12:01 ` Tomasz Kłoczko
2006-01-05 12:23 ` Jaroslav Kysela
2006-01-05 14:21 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-05 14:56 ` [parisc-linux] " Alan Cox
2006-01-05 21:14 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-01-05 15:07 ` Tomasz Kłoczko
2006-01-05 16:14 ` Takashi Iwai
2006-01-05 17:19 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-05 20:13 ` Tomasz Kłoczko
2006-01-07 14:32 ` Takashi Iwai
2006-01-08 2:03 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-08 2:26 ` Martin Drab
2006-01-08 13:21 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-08 13:32 ` Jaroslav Kysela [this message]
2006-01-08 23:18 ` Pavel Machek
2006-01-09 0:33 ` [Alsa-devel] " Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-09 12:24 ` Takashi Iwai
2006-01-09 17:49 ` Thierry Vignaud
2006-01-08 9:42 ` Jaroslav Kysela
2006-01-08 13:04 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-08 13:23 ` Jaroslav Kysela
2006-01-08 13:38 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-09 0:30 ` [Alsa-devel] " Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-05 23:06 ` Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-05 23:39 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 23:56 ` Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-06 0:03 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 23:40 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 23:59 ` Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-06 15:03 ` Stefan Smietanowski
2006-01-06 15:48 ` Erik Mouw
2006-01-06 18:37 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-10 9:43 ` Jaroslav Kysela
2006-01-10 13:42 ` Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-10 14:08 ` Jaroslav Kysela
2006-01-10 14:17 ` Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-10 20:13 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-06 0:14 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-06 0:29 ` Martin Drab
2006-01-06 0:57 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-06 1:49 ` Martin Drab
2006-01-06 1:21 ` Zan Lynx
2006-01-06 15:17 ` Stefan Smietanowski
2006-01-09 23:55 ` jerome lacoste
2006-01-10 2:29 ` Stefan Smietanowski
2006-01-06 3:14 ` Edgar Toernig
2006-01-06 3:33 ` Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-06 11:34 ` Florian Schmidt
2006-01-06 7:47 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-01-07 14:45 ` Takashi Iwai
[not found] ` <Pine.LNX.4.61.0601080225500.17252@zeus.compusonic.fi>
2006-01-08 9:24 ` [Alsa-devel] " Jaroslav Kysela
2006-01-09 13:05 ` René Rebe
2006-01-09 15:10 ` Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-09 17:12 ` René Rebe
2006-01-09 21:58 ` David Lang
2006-01-09 23:20 ` John Rigg
2006-01-09 23:21 ` David Lang
2006-01-10 0:16 ` John Rigg
2006-01-10 0:29 ` David Lang
2006-01-10 0:44 ` Alan Cox
2006-01-10 1:56 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-10 1:27 ` John Rigg
2006-01-10 1:02 ` John Rigg
2006-01-10 0:48 ` Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-10 2:00 ` John Rigg
2006-01-10 2:17 ` Hannu Savolainen
[not found] ` <Pine.LNX.4.61.0601090010090.31763@zeus.compusonic.fi>
2006-01-10 10:51 ` Jaroslav Kysela
[not found] ` <Pine.LNX.4.61.0601101550390.24146@zeus.compusonic.fi>
2006-01-10 14:17 ` Jaroslav Kysela
2006-01-10 14:39 ` Adam Tlałka
2006-01-05 18:56 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 22:39 ` Joern Nettingsmeier
2006-01-05 23:44 ` Tomasz Kłoczko
2006-01-05 23:49 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-06 0:22 ` Joern Nettingsmeier
2006-01-06 1:30 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-06 2:20 ` Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-10 9:54 ` Jaroslav Kysela
2006-01-10 13:50 ` Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-06 0:00 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-05 12:47 ` Leonard Milcin Jr.
2006-01-04 12:13 ` [2.6 patch] schedule obsolete OSS drivers for removal Joern Nettingsmeier
2006-01-04 12:35 ` Andi Kleen
2006-01-04 12:41 ` Jaroslav Kysela
2006-01-04 17:31 ` Alistair John Strachan
2006-01-04 17:48 ` Takashi Iwai
2006-01-05 6:42 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-03 18:28 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-03 19:30 ` Thomas Sailer
2006-01-03 19:37 ` Jaroslav Kysela
2006-01-03 19:56 ` Thomas Sailer
2006-01-03 20:06 ` Jaroslav Kysela
2006-01-04 0:23 ` Thomas Sailer
2006-01-03 22:39 ` James Courtier-Dutton
2006-01-03 20:22 ` Takashi Iwai
2006-01-03 20:37 ` Tomasz Torcz
2006-01-03 20:44 ` Takashi Iwai
2006-01-03 20:56 ` Jesper Juhl
2006-01-03 21:56 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-01-03 22:11 ` Jesper Juhl
2006-01-04 11:46 ` Takashi Iwai
2006-01-04 14:46 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-01-04 16:43 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-05 10:57 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-01-05 12:44 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-05 18:33 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 20:03 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-05 20:05 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 20:18 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-05 20:28 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 20:32 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-05 20:39 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 20:32 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 20:54 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-05 21:01 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 21:43 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-05 21:47 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 23:35 ` Jesper Juhl
2006-01-06 0:04 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-06 0:08 ` Jesper Juhl
2006-01-06 1:36 ` Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-06 9:54 ` James Courtier-Dutton
2006-01-06 13:37 ` Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-06 10:34 ` Gabor Gombas
2006-01-06 12:48 ` Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-07 14:09 ` Takashi Iwai
2006-01-07 14:57 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-08 0:21 ` Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-06 2:40 ` Diego Calleja
2006-01-06 14:57 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-06 20:26 ` Jaroslav Kysela
2006-01-07 0:40 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-07 0:56 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-05 23:19 ` Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-05 23:33 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-06 13:20 ` caszonyi
2006-01-06 13:43 ` James Courtier-Dutton
2006-01-06 18:24 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-06 18:27 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-04 20:12 ` Kyle Moffett
2006-01-04 22:25 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-03 22:13 ` Tomasz Torcz
2006-01-03 23:10 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-01-03 23:51 ` Tomasz Kłoczko
2006-01-04 0:03 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-01-04 0:46 ` Tomasz Kłoczko
2006-01-04 1:01 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-01-04 2:51 ` Tomasz Kłoczko
2006-01-04 8:50 ` Alan Cox
2006-01-04 13:21 ` Greg Louis
2006-01-04 14:41 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-01-04 10:37 ` tapas
2006-01-04 17:28 ` Alistair John Strachan
2006-01-05 7:14 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-01-04 17:54 ` Takashi Iwai
2006-01-04 18:17 ` Florian Schmidt
2006-01-04 19:28 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-04 19:52 ` Florian Schmidt
2006-01-05 7:11 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-01-05 11:15 ` Takashi Iwai
2006-01-05 21:20 ` Jim Crilly
2006-01-05 7:11 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 19:09 ` Edgar Toernig
2006-01-05 19:29 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 20:19 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 21:05 ` Edgar Toernig
2006-01-05 21:10 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 20:24 ` Edgar Toernig
2006-01-05 20:29 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 7:16 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 11:43 ` Florian Schmidt
2006-01-05 17:48 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-08 21:07 ` Ville Herva
2006-01-08 21:44 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-09 8:16 ` Ville Herva
2006-01-09 13:52 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-09 14:22 ` Ville Herva
2006-01-09 15:18 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-09 16:21 ` Ville Herva
2006-01-09 16:22 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 18:36 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 18:47 ` Tomasz Torcz
2006-01-05 19:10 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 19:15 ` Florian Schmidt
2006-01-04 0:28 ` Stefan Smietanowski
2006-01-04 1:38 ` Tomasz Kłoczko
2006-01-04 9:48 ` Stefan Smietanowski
2006-01-05 3:03 ` Peter Bortas
2006-01-05 7:13 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-01-05 7:19 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 8:41 ` Stefan Smietanowski
2006-01-05 9:57 ` Peter Bortas
2006-01-03 17:09 ` Jan Engelhardt
[not found] <4uzow-1g5-13@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <5r0aY-2If-41@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <5r3Ca-88G-81@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <5reGV-6YD-23@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <5reGV-6YD-21@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <5rf9X-7yf-25@gated-at.bofh.it>
2006-01-04 11:56 ` [OT] ALSA userspace API complexity Patrizio Bassi
2006-01-04 18:07 ` Florian Schmidt
2006-01-04 18:46 ` Alistair John Strachan
2006-01-05 18:59 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 20:06 ` Patrizio Bassi
2006-01-05 20:11 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 20:47 ` Patrizio Bassi
[not found] <5rdrx-4Yl-43@gated-at.bofh.it>
2006-01-05 14:01 ` Heikki Orsila
2006-01-05 14:24 ` Jaroslav Kysela
2006-01-05 14:45 ` Heikki Orsila
2006-01-10 9:22 ` Jaroslav Kysela
2006-01-10 11:50 ` Heikki Orsila
2006-01-05 14:51 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-05 15:26 ` Alexander E. Patrakov
2006-01-05 15:30 ` Jaroslav Kysela
2006-01-05 16:01 ` Alexander E. Patrakov
2006-01-05 18:11 ` Florian Schmidt
2006-01-05 15:33 ` Jaroslav Kysela
2006-01-05 16:48 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-05 15:27 ` Heikki Orsila
2006-01-05 14:49 ` Alistair John Strachan
2006-01-08 7:19 linux
2006-01-08 22:08 ` Hannu Savolainen
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