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From: Steven Rostedt <rostedt@goodmis.org>
To: James Bottomley <James.Bottomley@HansenPartnership.com>
Cc: ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org,
	Carlos O'Donell <carlos@redhat.com>,
	linux-api@vger.kernel.org,
	Thorsten Leemhuis <linux@leemhuis.info>,
	Shuah Khan <shuahkh@osg.samsung.com>
Subject: Re: [Ksummit-discuss] [MAINTAINERS SUMMIT] & [TECH TOPIC] Improve regression tracking
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2017 12:04:59 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20170705120459.41e81f7b@gandalf.local.home> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1499269015.3668.25.camel@HansenPartnership.com>

On Wed, 05 Jul 2017 08:36:55 -0700
James Bottomley <James.Bottomley@HansenPartnership.com> wrote:

> > Are we tracking regressions or just simply bugs?  
> 
> A lot of device driver regressions are bugs that previously existed in
> the code but which didn't manifest until something else happened.  A
> huge number of locking and timing issues are like this.  The irony is
> that a lot of them go from race always being won (so bug never noticed)
> to race being lost often enough to make something unusable.  To a user
> that ends up being a kernel regression because it's a bug in the
> current kernel which they didn't see previously which makes it unusable
> for them.
> 
> I've got to vote with my users here: that's a regression not a
> "feature".

Let's take a step back. What exactly is the problem?

The regressions that we want to track? Why are they not fixed? Is it
because they are hard to reproduce? If so, how do we know they are a
regression or just some hard to hit bug? If it's hard to hit, how do we
know we fixed it?

What exactly are the questions we want solved.

Granted, I used this thread to push more use of kselftests, and I don't
see any SCSI tests there at all!

-- Steve

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Steven Rostedt <rostedt-nx8X9YLhiw1AfugRpC6u6w@public.gmane.org>
To: James Bottomley
	<James.Bottomley-d9PhHud1JfjCXq6kfMZ53/egYHeGw8Jk@public.gmane.org>
Cc: Guenter Roeck <linux-0h96xk9xTtrk1uMJSBkQmQ@public.gmane.org>,
	ksummit-discuss-cunTk1MwBs98uUxBSJOaYoYkZiVZrdSR2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org,
	Carlos O'Donell <carlos-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>,
	Shuah Khan <shuahkh-JPH+aEBZ4P+UEJcrhfAQsw@public.gmane.org>,
	Thorsten Leemhuis <linux-rCxcAJFjeRkk+I/owrrOrA@public.gmane.org>,
	linux-api-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [Ksummit-discuss] [MAINTAINERS SUMMIT] & [TECH TOPIC] Improve regression tracking
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2017 12:04:59 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20170705120459.41e81f7b@gandalf.local.home> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1499269015.3668.25.camel-d9PhHud1JfjCXq6kfMZ53/egYHeGw8Jk@public.gmane.org>

On Wed, 05 Jul 2017 08:36:55 -0700
James Bottomley <James.Bottomley-d9PhHud1JfjCXq6kfMZ53/egYHeGw8Jk@public.gmane.org> wrote:

> > Are we tracking regressions or just simply bugs?  
> 
> A lot of device driver regressions are bugs that previously existed in
> the code but which didn't manifest until something else happened.  A
> huge number of locking and timing issues are like this.  The irony is
> that a lot of them go from race always being won (so bug never noticed)
> to race being lost often enough to make something unusable.  To a user
> that ends up being a kernel regression because it's a bug in the
> current kernel which they didn't see previously which makes it unusable
> for them.
> 
> I've got to vote with my users here: that's a regression not a
> "feature".

Let's take a step back. What exactly is the problem?

The regressions that we want to track? Why are they not fixed? Is it
because they are hard to reproduce? If so, how do we know they are a
regression or just some hard to hit bug? If it's hard to hit, how do we
know we fixed it?

What exactly are the questions we want solved.

Granted, I used this thread to push more use of kselftests, and I don't
see any SCSI tests there at all!

-- Steve

  reply	other threads:[~2017-07-05 16:05 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 144+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2017-07-02 17:51 [Ksummit-discuss] [MAINTAINERS SUMMIT] & [TECH TOPIC] Improve regression tracking Thorsten Leemhuis
2017-07-03 16:30 ` Steven Rostedt
2017-07-03 16:30   ` Steven Rostedt
2017-07-03 18:50   ` Dan Williams
2017-07-03 18:50     ` Dan Williams
2017-07-04 19:03   ` Thorsten Leemhuis
2017-07-04 19:03     ` Thorsten Leemhuis
2017-07-05 12:45     ` Steven Rostedt
2017-07-05 12:45       ` Steven Rostedt
2017-07-05 13:09       ` Carlos O'Donell
2017-07-05 13:09         ` Carlos O'Donell
2017-07-05 13:27         ` Steven Rostedt
2017-07-05 13:27           ` Steven Rostedt
2017-07-05 14:06           ` Greg KH
2017-07-05 14:06             ` Greg KH
2017-07-05 14:28             ` Carlos O'Donell
2017-07-05 14:28               ` Carlos O'Donell
2017-07-05 14:33             ` Steven Rostedt
2017-07-05 14:33               ` Steven Rostedt
2017-07-05 14:52               ` Mark Brown
2017-07-05 14:52                 ` Mark Brown
2017-07-05 15:08               ` Carlos O'Donell
2017-07-05 15:08                 ` Carlos O'Donell
2017-07-05 16:10                 ` Steven Rostedt
2017-07-05 16:10                   ` Steven Rostedt
2017-07-06 11:34                   ` Laurent Pinchart
2017-07-06 11:34                     ` Laurent Pinchart
2017-07-09 13:46               ` Thorsten Leemhuis
2017-07-09 13:46                 ` Thorsten Leemhuis
2017-07-05 14:33             ` Mark Brown
2017-07-05 14:33               ` Mark Brown
2017-07-05 14:36               ` Steven Rostedt
2017-07-05 14:36                 ` Steven Rostedt
2017-07-05 14:50                 ` James Bottomley
2017-07-05 14:50                   ` James Bottomley
2017-07-05 14:56                   ` Steven Rostedt
2017-07-05 14:56                     ` Steven Rostedt
2017-07-05 15:09                     ` James Bottomley
2017-07-05 15:09                       ` James Bottomley
2017-07-05 15:20                       ` Mark Brown
2017-07-05 15:20                         ` Mark Brown
2017-07-05 15:40                         ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2017-07-05 15:40                           ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2017-07-05 15:20                       ` Steven Rostedt
2017-07-05 15:20                         ` Steven Rostedt
2017-07-05 15:32                         ` James Bottomley
2017-07-05 15:32                           ` James Bottomley
2017-07-05 15:43                           ` Steven Rostedt
2017-07-05 15:43                             ` Steven Rostedt
2017-07-05 18:24                       ` Daniel Vetter
2017-07-05 18:24                         ` Daniel Vetter
2017-07-05 18:17                 ` Daniel Vetter
2017-07-05 18:17                   ` Daniel Vetter
2017-07-05 15:16             ` Guenter Roeck
2017-07-05 15:16               ` Guenter Roeck
2017-07-05 15:27               ` Steven Rostedt
2017-07-05 15:27                 ` Steven Rostedt
2017-07-05 15:36                 ` James Bottomley
2017-07-05 15:36                   ` James Bottomley
2017-07-05 16:04                   ` Steven Rostedt [this message]
2017-07-05 16:04                     ` Steven Rostedt
2017-07-05 16:58                     ` James Bottomley
2017-07-05 16:58                       ` James Bottomley
2017-07-05 17:07                       ` Steven Rostedt
2017-07-05 17:07                         ` Steven Rostedt
2017-07-05 16:48                 ` Guenter Roeck
2017-07-05 16:48                   ` Guenter Roeck
2017-07-05 16:58                   ` Dan Williams
2017-07-05 16:58                     ` Dan Williams
2017-07-05 17:02                   ` Steven Rostedt
2017-07-05 17:02                     ` Steven Rostedt
2017-07-06  9:28                     ` Mark Brown
2017-07-06  9:28                       ` Mark Brown
2017-07-06  9:41                       ` Daniel Vetter
2017-07-06  9:41                         ` Daniel Vetter
2017-07-06 14:53                         ` Theodore Ts'o
2017-07-06 14:53                           ` Theodore Ts'o
2017-07-06 21:28                           ` Daniel Vetter
2017-07-06 21:28                             ` Daniel Vetter
2017-07-06 14:48                       ` James Bottomley
2017-07-06 14:48                         ` James Bottomley
2017-07-07 10:03                         ` Mark Brown
2017-07-07 10:03                           ` Mark Brown
2017-07-31 16:54                     ` Eric W. Biederman
2017-07-31 16:54                       ` Eric W. Biederman
2017-07-31 20:11                       ` Steven Rostedt
2017-07-31 20:11                         ` Steven Rostedt
2017-07-31 20:12                         ` Eric W. Biederman
2017-07-31 20:12                           ` Eric W. Biederman
2017-08-02 16:53                       ` Shuah Khan
2017-08-02 16:53                         ` Shuah Khan
2017-08-02 17:33                         ` Eric W. Biederman
2017-08-02 17:33                           ` Eric W. Biederman
2017-08-02 17:46                           ` Shuah Khan
2017-08-02 17:46                             ` Shuah Khan
2017-08-02 17:58                             ` Shuah Khan
2017-08-02 17:58                               ` Shuah Khan
2017-08-02 18:04                             ` Eric W. Biederman
2017-08-02 18:04                               ` Eric W. Biederman
2017-08-02 18:23                               ` Randy Dunlap
2017-08-02 18:23                                 ` Randy Dunlap
2017-08-02 18:42                               ` Shuah Khan
2017-08-02 18:42                                 ` Shuah Khan
2017-08-03  3:03                                 ` Theodore Ts'o
2017-08-03  3:03                                   ` Theodore Ts'o
2017-08-03 17:42                                   ` Bird, Timothy
2017-08-03 17:42                                     ` Bird, Timothy
2017-08-03 22:11                                     ` Shuah Khan
2017-08-03 22:11                                       ` Shuah Khan
2017-08-03 18:51                                   ` Shuah Khan
2017-08-03 18:51                                     ` Shuah Khan
2017-08-04  1:15                                     ` Theodore Ts'o
2017-08-04  1:15                                       ` Theodore Ts'o
2017-07-07  3:33                 ` Fengguang Wu
2017-07-07  3:33                   ` Fengguang Wu
2017-07-07  4:52                   ` Frank Rowand
2017-07-07  4:52                     ` Frank Rowand
2017-07-05 15:32               ` Greg KH
2017-07-05 15:32                 ` Greg KH
2017-07-05 15:36                 ` Carlos O'Donell
2017-07-05 15:36                   ` Carlos O'Donell
2017-07-05 15:52                 ` Steven Rostedt
2017-07-05 15:52                   ` Steven Rostedt
2017-07-05 18:42                   ` Greg KH
2017-07-05 18:42                     ` Greg KH
2017-07-05 18:29                 ` Daniel Vetter
2017-07-05 18:29                   ` Daniel Vetter
2017-07-06 22:24                 ` Shuah Khan
2017-07-06 22:24                   ` Shuah Khan
2017-07-06 22:32                   ` Steven Rostedt
2017-07-06 22:32                     ` Steven Rostedt
2017-07-06 22:40                     ` Shuah Khan
2017-07-06 22:40                       ` Shuah Khan
2017-07-05 16:54             ` Dan Williams
2017-07-05 16:54               ` Dan Williams
2017-07-05 18:45               ` Greg KH
2017-07-05 18:45                 ` Greg KH
2017-07-05 19:47                 ` Dan Williams
2017-07-05 19:47                   ` Dan Williams
2017-07-05 14:06           ` Carlos O'Donell
2017-07-05 14:06             ` Carlos O'Donell
2017-07-05 15:47         ` Mark Brown
2017-07-05 15:47           ` Mark Brown
2017-07-07  6:15 ` Andrei Vagin

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