From: "Rafael J. Wysocki" <rjw@sisk.pl>
To: Willy Tarreau <w@1wt.eu>
Cc: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@osdl.org>, karderio <karderio@gmail.com>,
linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: GPL only modules [was Re: [GIT PATCH] more Driver core patches for 2.6.19]
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2006 12:09:57 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <200612161209.58498.rjw@sisk.pl> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20061216105035.GG24090@1wt.eu>
On Saturday, 16 December 2006 11:50, Willy Tarreau wrote:
> On Sat, Dec 16, 2006 at 11:28:27AM +0100, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> > On Saturday, 16 December 2006 07:43, Willy Tarreau wrote:
> > > On Fri, Dec 15, 2006 at 06:55:17PM -0800, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, 16 Dec 2006, karderio wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > As it stands, I believe the licence of the Linux kernel does impose
> > > > > certain restrictions and come with certain obligations
> > > >
> > > > Absolutely. And they boil down to something very simple:
> > > >
> > > > "Derived works have to be under the same license"
> > > >
> > > > where the rest is just really fluff.
> > > >
> > > > But the point is, "derived work" is not what _you_ or _I_ define. It's
> > > > what copyright law defines.
> > > >
> > > > And trying to push that definition too far is a total disaster. If you
> > > > push the definition of derived work to "anything that touches our work",
> > > > you're going to end up in a very dark and unhappy place. One where the
> > > > RIAA is your best buddy.
> > > >
> > > > And the proposed "we make some technical measure whereby we draw our _own_
> > > > lines" is exactly that total disaster.
> > > >
> > > > We don't draw our own lines. We accept that the lines are drawn for us by
> > > > copyright law, and we actually _hope_ that the lines aren't too sharp and
> > > > too clearcut. Because sharp edges on copyright is the worst possible
> > > > situation we could ever be in.
> > > >
> > > > The reason fair use is so important is exactly that it blunts/dulls the
> > > > sharp knife that overly strong copyright protection could be.
> > >
> > > All this is about "fair use", and "fair use" comes from compatibility
> > > between the author's intent and the user's intent. For this exact reason,
> > > I have added a "LICENSE" file [1] in my software (haproxy) stating that I
> > > explicitly permit linking with binary code if the user has no other choice
> > > (eg: protocols specs obtained under NDA), provided that "derived work"
> > > does not steal any GPL code (include files are under LGPL). On the other
> > > hand, all "common protocols" are developped under GPL so that normal users
> > > are the winners, and everyone is strongly encouraged to use the GPL for
> > > their new code to benefit from everyone else's eyes on the code.
> > >
> > > This clarifies my intent and let developers decide whether *they* are
> > > doing legal things or not.
> > >
> > > Don't you think it would be a good idea to add such a precision in the
> > > sources ? It could put an end to all those repeated lessons you have to
> > > teach to a lot of people about fair use. Or perhaps you like to put
> > > your teacher hat once a month ? :-)
> >
> > I think the most important problem with the binary-only drivers is that we
> > can't support their users _at_ _all_, but some of them expect us to support
> > them somehow.
>
> Agreed this is the most important problem.
>
> > So, why don't we make an official statement, like something that will appear
> > on the front page of www.kernel.org, that the users of binary-only drivers
> > will never get any support from us? That would make things crystal clear.
>
> This would constitute a good starting point. But what I was trying
> to address is the other side of the problem : all the politicial
> discussions on LKML which make the developers waste their time
> always trying to explain the same things to extremist people (you
> see, "we must forbid binary drivers to protect users freedom" and
> "I'm free to run whatever I want"). I don't care at all about what
> those people think and I don't like the way they want to impose
> their vision to others. But above all, but I'm fed up with those
> recurrent subjects on development and bug reporting mailing list,
> they waste everyone's time.
Agreed.
Greetings,
Rafael
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2006-12-16 11:08 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 160+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2006-12-15 23:56 GPL only modules [was Re: [GIT PATCH] more Driver core patches for 2.6.19] karderio
2006-12-16 0:24 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-16 1:27 ` Alan
2006-12-16 1:53 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-16 3:59 ` jdow
2006-12-16 17:08 ` David Nicol
2006-12-20 19:46 ` Lord of the code! [was: GPL only modules [was Re: [GIT PATCH] more Driver core patches for 2.6.19]] Steven Rostedt
2006-12-20 20:27 ` alan
2006-12-16 2:32 ` GPL only modules [was Re: [GIT PATCH] more Driver core patches for 2.6.19] karderio
2006-12-16 2:55 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-16 6:43 ` Willy Tarreau
2006-12-16 10:28 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2006-12-16 10:50 ` Willy Tarreau
2006-12-16 11:09 ` Rafael J. Wysocki [this message]
2006-12-16 15:15 ` Gene Heskett
2006-12-17 11:04 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2006-12-16 16:33 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-16 14:42 ` Theodore Tso
2006-12-16 16:30 ` Willy Tarreau
2006-12-16 20:23 ` Theodore Tso
2006-12-16 21:04 ` Willy Tarreau
2006-12-16 16:54 ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2006-12-16 16:28 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-16 16:49 ` Willy Tarreau
2006-12-16 17:20 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-16 18:33 ` Dave Jones
2006-12-17 1:56 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-12-17 3:06 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-12-17 20:23 ` Gerhard Mack
2006-12-21 19:39 ` Pavel Machek
2006-12-18 21:04 ` karderio
2006-12-18 22:05 ` Theodore Tso
2006-12-18 22:11 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-18 22:42 ` Scott Preece
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2006-12-22 11:48 Niklas Steinkamp
2006-12-18 2:43 Brendan Scott
2006-12-16 18:27 Ricardo Galli
2006-12-16 21:01 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-17 0:22 ` Ricardo Galli
2006-12-17 4:10 ` Theodore Tso
2006-12-13 19:52 [GIT PATCH] more Driver core patches for 2.6.19 Greg KH
2006-12-13 20:12 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-13 20:38 ` Michael K. Edwards
2006-12-13 21:02 ` Greg KH
2006-12-13 21:32 ` Martin Bligh
2006-12-13 21:47 ` Andrew Morton
2006-12-13 22:09 ` GPL only modules [was Re: [GIT PATCH] more Driver core patches for 2.6.19] Greg KH
2006-12-14 0:32 ` Greg KH
2006-12-14 0:43 ` Jonathan Corbet
2006-12-14 0:55 ` Greg KH
2006-12-14 1:00 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-14 1:08 ` Michael K. Edwards
2006-12-14 1:30 ` Grzegorz Kulewski
2006-12-14 1:58 ` Greg KH
2006-12-14 4:15 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-14 5:39 ` Martin J. Bligh
2006-12-14 6:01 ` Hua Zhong
2006-12-14 11:14 ` Alan
2006-12-14 11:31 ` Hans-Jürgen Koch
2006-12-14 12:42 ` Alan
2006-12-14 12:54 ` Hans-Jürgen Koch
2006-12-14 16:59 ` Greg KH
2006-12-14 18:26 ` Alan
2006-12-14 21:16 ` Greg KH
2006-12-14 12:55 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-12-14 13:10 ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-12-14 17:17 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-12-17 10:54 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2006-12-14 8:03 ` James Morris
2006-12-14 15:39 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-12-14 20:08 ` David Schwartz
2006-12-15 14:05 ` Paolo Ornati
2006-12-17 10:11 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2006-12-17 10:56 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2006-12-19 12:57 ` Marek Wawrzyczny
2006-12-19 13:56 ` Diego Calleja
2006-12-19 16:46 ` Gene Heskett
2006-12-19 17:11 ` Bill Nottingham
2006-12-19 17:24 ` Gene Heskett
2006-12-19 17:13 ` Diego Calleja
2006-12-20 5:11 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-12-20 19:29 ` David Schwartz
2006-12-20 20:52 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-12-20 21:10 ` alan
2006-12-21 15:34 ` Marek Wawrzyczny
2006-12-21 16:43 ` Horst H. von Brand
2006-12-21 19:28 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-12-24 3:11 ` Horst H. von Brand
2006-12-20 4:27 ` Steven Rostedt
2006-12-14 13:07 ` Dave Jones
2006-12-14 15:05 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-12-14 16:11 ` Dave Jones
2006-12-14 16:31 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-12-14 15:36 ` Martin J. Bligh
2006-12-14 17:20 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-12-14 14:12 ` Ben Collins
2006-12-14 15:10 ` James Courtier-Dutton
2006-12-14 16:09 ` Dave Jones
2006-12-14 16:36 ` Ben Collins
2006-12-14 17:34 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-12-14 19:29 ` Michael Buesch
2006-12-14 20:19 ` Ben Collins
2006-12-14 7:24 ` Jeffrey V. Merkey
2006-12-14 8:21 ` David Woodhouse
2006-12-14 11:25 ` Alan
2006-12-14 14:53 ` Theodore Tso
2006-12-14 16:52 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-14 17:33 ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-12-14 18:01 ` Martin J. Bligh
2006-12-14 18:12 ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-12-14 18:37 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-14 18:30 ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-12-14 9:34 ` James Courtier-Dutton
2006-12-24 11:57 ` Mark Hounschell
2006-12-24 13:22 ` Sean
2006-12-24 14:42 ` Mark Hounschell
2006-12-14 10:49 ` Xavier Bestel
2006-12-14 13:04 ` Dave Jones
2006-12-14 13:46 ` Ben Collins
2006-12-14 17:21 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-12-14 17:49 ` Ben Collins
2006-12-14 15:46 ` Jeff Garzik
2006-12-14 17:03 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-14 17:08 ` Chris Wedgwood
2006-12-14 17:38 ` Christoph Hellwig
2006-12-14 17:52 ` Chris Wedgwood
2006-12-14 18:09 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-12-14 18:15 ` Eric Sandeen
2006-12-14 18:39 ` Chris Wedgwood
2006-12-14 18:51 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-14 19:42 ` Scott Preece
2006-12-14 19:34 ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-12-15 10:13 ` Eduard Bloch
2006-12-15 17:44 ` Dave Neuer
2006-12-18 10:55 ` Eric W. Biederman
2006-12-18 17:05 ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-12-14 19:49 ` Hua Zhong
2006-12-17 10:57 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2006-12-14 16:17 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-12-14 16:33 ` Alan
2006-12-14 16:54 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-12-14 17:17 ` Theodore Tso
2006-12-14 18:18 ` Alan
2006-12-14 19:51 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-12-21 15:38 ` Pavel Machek
2006-12-23 11:24 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-12-23 21:36 ` Pavel Machek
2006-12-24 1:07 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-12-14 5:10 ` Bill Nottingham
2006-12-14 8:48 ` Greg KH
2006-12-14 14:02 ` Rik van Riel
2006-12-14 15:42 ` Chris Friesen
2006-12-14 15:47 ` Alan
2006-12-14 15:48 ` Jeff Garzik
2006-12-14 22:21 ` Dave Airlie
2006-12-14 22:26 ` Michael Buesch
2006-12-14 22:39 ` Dave Airlie
2006-12-14 22:45 ` Michael Buesch
2006-12-14 19:32 ` Bill Nottingham
2006-12-14 5:58 ` Nigel Cunningham
2006-12-14 7:54 ` David Schwartz
2006-12-14 8:21 ` David Woodhouse
2006-12-14 10:36 ` Alan
2006-12-14 14:57 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-12-24 14:27 ` Pavel Machek
2006-12-24 19:59 ` Dmitry Torokhov
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