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From: Rik van Riel <riel@redhat.com>
To: Greg KH <gregkh@suse.de>
Cc: Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net>, Andrew Morton <akpm@osdl.org>,
	Martin Bligh <mbligh@mbligh.org>,
	"Michael K. Edwards" <medwards.linux@gmail.com>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@osdl.org>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: GPL only modules [was Re: [GIT PATCH] more Driver core patches for 2.6.19]
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 09:02:04 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <4581595C.7080508@redhat.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20061214084820.GA29311@suse.de>

Greg KH wrote:

> It's just that I'm so damn tired of this whole thing.  I'm tired of
> people thinking they have a right to violate my copyright all the time.

Pretty much every license under the sun is getting violated,
and people are getting away with it. The GPL is not special
in this regard.

> And yes, it is crap that I deal with every day due to the lovely grey
> area that is Linux kernel module licensing these days.  I have customers
> that demand we support them despite them mixing three and more different
> closed source kernel modules at once and getting upset that I have no
> way to help them out.

However, users do not like running unsupportable software
when the shit hits the fan - which it will always do with
any piece of software, eventually :)

Maybe we should just educate users and teach them to
avoid crazy unsupportable configurations and simply buy
the hardware that has open drivers available?

In the laptop space, I already try to avoid everything
non-Centrino, because chances are a closed source video
or network driver would be needed with something else[1].

Judging from how much vendor drivers tend to get improved
when they get merged upstream, I don't see how vendors
think they can get away with not merging their code upstream.

I'm not talking about this from a legal standpoint (millions
of people get away with blatantly illegal stuff every day),
but from a technical and market point of view.

Why would users buy a piece of hardware that needs a binary
only driver that's unsupportable, when they can buy a similar
piece of hardware that has a driver that's upstream and is
supported by every single Linux distribution out there?

Sure, the process of getting drivers merged upstream[2] can
take some time and effort, but the resulting improvements in
driver performance and stability are often worth it.  It's
happened more than once that the Linux kernel community's
review process turned up some opportunities for a 30% performance
improvement in a submitted driver.

Hardware companies: can you afford to miss out on the stability
and performance improvements that merging a driver upstream tends
to get?

Can you afford to miss out when your competitors are getting these
benefits?

[1] other vendors: fix your stuff, so I can recommend your hardware too!
[2] http://kernelnewbies.org/UpstreamMerge
-- 
Politics is the struggle between those who want to make their country
the best in the world, and those who believe it already is.  Each group
calls the other unpatriotic.

  reply	other threads:[~2006-12-14 14:03 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 239+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2006-12-13 19:52 [GIT PATCH] more Driver core patches for 2.6.19 Greg KH
     [not found] ` <1166039585152-git-send-email-greg@kroah.com>
     [not found]   ` <11660395913232-git-send-email-greg@kroah.com>
     [not found]     ` <11660395951158-git-send-email-greg@kroah.com>
     [not found]       ` <11660395998-git-send-email-greg@kroah.com>
2006-12-13 19:52         ` [PATCH 5/14] Driver core: show "initstate" of module Greg KH
2006-12-13 19:52           ` [PATCH 6/14] driver core: delete virtual directory on class_unregister() Greg KH
2006-12-13 19:52             ` [PATCH 7/14] DebugFS : inotify create/mkdir support Greg KH
2006-12-13 19:52               ` [PATCH 8/14] DebugFS : coding style fixes Greg KH
2006-12-13 19:53                 ` [PATCH 9/14] DebugFS : file/directory creation error handling Greg KH
2006-12-13 19:53                   ` [PATCH 10/14] DebugFS : more " Greg KH
2006-12-13 19:53                     ` [PATCH 11/14] DebugFS : file/directory removal fix Greg KH
2006-12-13 19:53                       ` [PATCH 12/14] Driver core: "platform_driver_probe() can save codespace": save codespace Greg KH
2006-12-13 19:53                         ` [PATCH 13/14] Driver core: Make platform_device_add_data accept a const pointer Greg KH
2006-12-13 19:53                           ` [PATCH 14/14] Driver core: deprecate PM_LEGACY, default it to N Greg KH
2006-12-13 20:12 ` [GIT PATCH] more Driver core patches for 2.6.19 Linus Torvalds
2006-12-13 20:31   ` Greg KH
2006-12-13 20:58     ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-13 21:08       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-13 21:15         ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-12-14  9:30           ` Muli Ben-Yehuda
2006-12-14 10:13             ` Hans-Jürgen Koch
2006-12-13 21:36       ` Thomas Gleixner
2006-12-13 21:46       ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-12-13 23:40       ` Greg KH
2006-12-14  8:49       ` Duncan Sands
2006-12-14  9:56         ` Hans-Jürgen Koch
2006-12-14 11:51           ` Olivier Galibert
2006-12-14 12:45             ` Hans-Jürgen Koch
2006-12-14 19:16               ` Olivier Galibert
2006-12-14 12:39           ` Alan
2006-12-14 13:08             ` Hans-Jürgen Koch
2006-12-14 17:02           ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-12-14 17:17             ` Hans-Jürgen Koch
2006-12-14 17:57               ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-12-16 20:13             ` Lee Revell
2006-12-16 20:28               ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-12-14 17:34           ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2006-12-14 17:47             ` Hans-Jürgen Koch
2006-12-14 17:59               ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2006-12-14 12:27         ` James Courtier-Dutton
2006-12-13 20:38   ` Michael K. Edwards
2006-12-13 21:02     ` Greg KH
2006-12-13 21:32       ` Martin Bligh
2006-12-13 21:47         ` Andrew Morton
2006-12-13 22:09           ` GPL only modules [was Re: [GIT PATCH] more Driver core patches for 2.6.19] Greg KH
2006-12-14  0:32             ` Greg KH
2006-12-14  0:43               ` Jonathan Corbet
2006-12-14  0:55                 ` Greg KH
2006-12-14  1:00                   ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-14  1:08                     ` Michael K. Edwards
2006-12-14  1:30                   ` Grzegorz Kulewski
2006-12-14  1:58                     ` Greg KH
2006-12-14  4:15                   ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-14  5:39                     ` Martin J. Bligh
2006-12-14  6:01                       ` Hua Zhong
2006-12-14 11:14                         ` Alan
2006-12-14 11:31                           ` Hans-Jürgen Koch
2006-12-14 12:42                             ` Alan
2006-12-14 12:54                               ` Hans-Jürgen Koch
2006-12-14 16:59                                 ` Greg KH
2006-12-14 18:26                                   ` Alan
2006-12-14 21:16                                     ` Greg KH
2006-12-14 12:55                               ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-12-14 13:10                                 ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-12-14 17:17                                   ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-12-17 10:54                                     ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2006-12-14  8:03                       ` James Morris
2006-12-14 15:39                         ` Adrian Bunk
2006-12-14 20:08                           ` David Schwartz
2006-12-15 14:05                             ` Paolo Ornati
2006-12-17 10:11                             ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2006-12-17 10:56                               ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2006-12-19 12:57                               ` Marek Wawrzyczny
2006-12-19 13:56                                 ` Diego Calleja
2006-12-19 16:46                                   ` Gene Heskett
2006-12-19 17:11                                     ` Bill Nottingham
2006-12-19 17:24                                       ` Gene Heskett
2006-12-19 17:13                                     ` Diego Calleja
2006-12-20  5:11                                 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-12-20 19:29                                   ` David Schwartz
2006-12-20 20:52                                     ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-12-20 21:10                                       ` alan
2006-12-21 15:34                                   ` Marek Wawrzyczny
2006-12-21 16:43                                     ` Horst H. von Brand
2006-12-21 19:28                                     ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-12-24  3:11                                       ` Horst H. von Brand
2006-12-20  4:27                               ` Steven Rostedt
2006-12-14 13:07                       ` Dave Jones
2006-12-14 15:05                         ` Adrian Bunk
2006-12-14 16:11                           ` Dave Jones
2006-12-14 16:31                             ` Olivier Galibert
2006-12-14 15:36                         ` Martin J. Bligh
2006-12-14 17:20                         ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-12-14 14:12                       ` Ben Collins
2006-12-14 15:10                         ` James Courtier-Dutton
2006-12-14 16:09                           ` Dave Jones
2006-12-14 16:36                           ` Ben Collins
2006-12-14 17:34                         ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-12-14 19:29                         ` Michael Buesch
2006-12-14 20:19                           ` Ben Collins
2006-12-14  7:24                     ` Jeffrey V. Merkey
2006-12-14  8:21                     ` David Woodhouse
2006-12-14 11:25                       ` Alan
2007-01-22 23:37                         ` dfsg isn't fsf (Re: GPL only modules [was Re: [GIT PATCH] more Driver core patches for 2.6.19]) Oleg Verych
2006-12-14 14:53                       ` GPL only modules [was Re: [GIT PATCH] more Driver core patches for 2.6.19] Theodore Tso
2006-12-14 16:52                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-14 17:33                         ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-12-14 18:01                           ` Martin J. Bligh
2006-12-14 18:12                             ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-12-14 18:37                               ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-14 18:30                                 ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-12-14  9:34                     ` James Courtier-Dutton
2006-12-24 11:57                       ` Mark Hounschell
2006-12-24 13:22                         ` Sean
2006-12-24 14:42                           ` Mark Hounschell
2006-12-14 10:49                     ` Xavier Bestel
2006-12-14 13:04                     ` Dave Jones
2006-12-14 13:46                     ` Ben Collins
2006-12-14 17:21                       ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-12-14 17:49                         ` Ben Collins
2006-12-14 15:46                     ` Jeff Garzik
2006-12-14 17:03                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-14 17:08                         ` Chris Wedgwood
2006-12-14 17:38                           ` Christoph Hellwig
2006-12-14 17:52                             ` Chris Wedgwood
2006-12-14 18:09                               ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-12-18 10:28                                 ` GPL only modules Eric W. Biederman
2006-12-14 18:15                               ` GPL only modules [was Re: [GIT PATCH] more Driver core patches for 2.6.19] Eric Sandeen
2006-12-14 18:39                                 ` Chris Wedgwood
2006-12-14 18:51                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-14 19:42                                   ` Scott Preece
2006-12-14 19:34                                     ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-12-15  5:28                                       ` GPL only modules Alexandre Oliva
2006-12-15 10:13                                       ` GPL only modules [was Re: [GIT PATCH] more Driver core patches for 2.6.19] Eduard Bloch
2006-12-15 17:44                                       ` Dave Neuer
2006-12-18 10:55                                       ` Eric W. Biederman
2006-12-18 17:05                                         ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-12-14 19:49                                     ` Hua Zhong
2006-12-17 10:57                             ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2006-12-14 16:17                     ` Adrian Bunk
2006-12-14 16:33                       ` Alan
2006-12-14 16:54                         ` Adrian Bunk
2006-12-14 17:17                         ` Theodore Tso
2006-12-14 18:18                           ` Alan
2006-12-14 19:51                           ` Adrian Bunk
2006-12-21 15:38                             ` Pavel Machek
2006-12-23 11:24                               ` Adrian Bunk
2006-12-23 21:36                                 ` Pavel Machek
2006-12-24  1:07                                   ` Adrian Bunk
2006-12-19 15:12                     ` free module selection Markus Elfring
2006-12-14  5:10                   ` GPL only modules [was Re: [GIT PATCH] more Driver core patches for 2.6.19] Bill Nottingham
2006-12-14  8:48                     ` Greg KH
2006-12-14 14:02                       ` Rik van Riel [this message]
2006-12-14 15:42                         ` Chris Friesen
2006-12-14 15:47                         ` Alan
2006-12-14 15:48                           ` Jeff Garzik
2006-12-14 22:21                             ` Dave Airlie
2006-12-14 22:26                               ` Michael Buesch
2006-12-14 22:39                                 ` Dave Airlie
2006-12-14 22:45                                   ` Michael Buesch
2006-12-14 19:32                         ` Bill Nottingham
2006-12-14  5:58                   ` Nigel Cunningham
2006-12-14  7:54                   ` David Schwartz
2006-12-14  8:21                   ` David Woodhouse
2006-12-14 10:36                 ` Alan
2006-12-14 14:57                   ` Adrian Bunk
2006-12-24 14:27               ` Pavel Machek
2006-12-24 19:59                 ` Dmitry Torokhov
2006-12-13 22:20           ` [GIT PATCH] more Driver core patches for 2.6.19 Michael K. Edwards
2006-12-13 22:59             ` Kyle Moffett
2006-12-13 23:55             ` Alan
2006-12-14  2:11               ` Al Viro
2006-12-14 17:22               ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-14 15:13             ` Rik van Riel
2006-12-13 21:48       ` Michael K. Edwards
2006-12-13 21:03     ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-16  9:05       ` Pavel Machek
2006-12-16 11:04         ` Jörn Engel
2006-12-17 10:49           ` Pavel Machek
2006-12-13 21:14   ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-12-13 21:22     ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-12-13 23:28       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-14 11:18         ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-12-14 11:26           ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-12-14 17:32             ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-14 18:04               ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-12-14 17:26           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-14 20:47             ` Thomas Gleixner
2006-12-14 22:59               ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-14 23:37                 ` Thomas Gleixner
2006-12-13 21:26     ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-13 22:14       ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-12-13 22:30         ` Thomas Gleixner
2006-12-13 22:39           ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-12-13 23:11             ` Thomas Gleixner
2006-12-13 23:39               ` Michael K. Edwards
2006-12-14  0:00               ` Alan
2006-12-13 23:56           ` Alan
2006-12-14  0:08             ` Greg KH
2006-12-14  9:15             ` Thomas Gleixner
2006-12-14 11:33               ` Alan
2006-12-13 22:40         ` Thomas Gleixner
2006-12-13 22:45           ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-12-13 23:15             ` Thomas Gleixner
2006-12-15 23:56 GPL only modules [was Re: [GIT PATCH] more Driver core patches for 2.6.19] karderio
2006-12-16  0:24 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-16  1:27   ` Alan
2006-12-16  1:53     ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-16  3:59     ` jdow
2006-12-16 17:08     ` David Nicol
2006-12-16  2:32   ` karderio
2006-12-16  2:55     ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-16  6:43       ` Willy Tarreau
2006-12-16 10:28         ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2006-12-16 10:50           ` Willy Tarreau
2006-12-16 11:09             ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2006-12-16 15:15           ` Gene Heskett
2006-12-17 11:04             ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2006-12-16 16:33           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-16 14:42         ` Theodore Tso
2006-12-16 16:30           ` Willy Tarreau
2006-12-16 20:23             ` Theodore Tso
2006-12-16 21:04               ` Willy Tarreau
2006-12-16 16:54           ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2006-12-16 16:28         ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-16 16:49           ` Willy Tarreau
2006-12-16 17:20             ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-16 18:33               ` Dave Jones
2006-12-17  1:56                 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-12-17  3:06                   ` Adrian Bunk
2006-12-17 20:23                 ` Gerhard Mack
2006-12-21 19:39                 ` Pavel Machek
2006-12-18 21:04       ` karderio
2006-12-18 22:05         ` Theodore Tso
2006-12-18 22:11         ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-18 22:42           ` Scott Preece
2006-12-16 18:27 Ricardo Galli
2006-12-16 21:01 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-17  0:22   ` Ricardo Galli
2006-12-17  4:10     ` Theodore Tso
2006-12-18  2:43 Brendan Scott
2006-12-22 11:48 Niklas Steinkamp

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