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From: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@osdl.org>
To: Willy Tarreau <w@1wt.eu>
Cc: karderio <karderio@gmail.com>, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: GPL only modules [was Re: [GIT PATCH] more Driver core patches for 2.6.19]
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2006 08:28:20 -0800 (PST)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0612160820240.3557@woody.osdl.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20061216064344.GF24090@1wt.eu>



On Sat, 16 Dec 2006, Willy Tarreau wrote:
> 
> All this is about "fair use", and "fair use" comes from compatibility
> between the author's intent and the user's intent.

No. "fair use" comes from an INcompatibility between the author's intent 
and the users intent. 

In other words, "fair use" kicks in EXACTLY when an author says "you can't 
copy this except when you [payme, stand on your head for two hours, give 
your modifications back]", and the user _disagrees_.

Users still have rights under copyright law even when the author tries to 
deny them those rights.

Of course, all reasonable true authors tend to agree with fair use. People 
who actually do "original work" tend to all realize that everybody really 
feeds off of each others works, and that we're all inspired by authors etc 
that went before us. So I doubt a lot of real authors, musicians or 
computer programmers will actually disagree with the notion of fair use, 
but it's important to realize that fair use is exactly for when the users 
and the authors rights clash, and the user DOES have rights. Even rights 
that weren't explicitly given to them by the author.

> For this exact reason, I have added a "LICENSE" file [1] in my software 
> (haproxy) stating that I explicitly permit linking with binary code if 
> the user has no other choice (eg: protocols specs obtained under NDA), 
> provided that "derived work" does not steal any GPL code (include files 
> are under LGPL). On the other hand, all "common protocols" are 
> developped under GPL so that normal users are the winners, and everyone 
> is strongly encouraged to use the GPL for their new code to benefit from 
> everyone else's eyes on the code.
> 
> This clarifies my intent and let developers decide whether *they* are
> doing legal things or not.

I think that's fine, and I think it may make some of your users happier, 
and breathe more easily. I don't disagree with that kind of clarification.

But:

> Don't you think it would be a good idea to add such a precision in the
> sources ?

I think it would be a hell of a lot better idea if people just realized 
that they have "fair use" rights whether the authors give them or not, and 
that the authors copyrights NEVER extend to anything but a "derived work".

I find the RIAA's position and the DMCA distasteful, and in that I 
probably have a lot of things in common with a lot of people on this list. 
But by _exactly_ the same token, I also find the FSF's position and a lot 
of GPL zealots' position on this matter very distasteful.

Because "fair use" is NOT somethng that should be specified in the 
license. It's very much something that people have DESPITE any license 
claiming otherwise.

And I'd rather teach people that fundamental fact, than try to confuse the 
issue EVEN MORE by saying that my copyright only extends to derived works 
in the license text. That will just make people think that if the license 
does NOT say that, they don't have fair use. AND THAT IS WRONG.

			Linus

  parent reply	other threads:[~2006-12-16 16:28 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 160+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2006-12-15 23:56 GPL only modules [was Re: [GIT PATCH] more Driver core patches for 2.6.19] karderio
2006-12-16  0:24 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-16  1:27   ` Alan
2006-12-16  1:53     ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-16  3:59     ` jdow
2006-12-16 17:08     ` David Nicol
2006-12-20 19:46     ` Lord of the code! [was: GPL only modules [was Re: [GIT PATCH] more Driver core patches for 2.6.19]] Steven Rostedt
2006-12-20 20:27       ` alan
2006-12-16  2:32   ` GPL only modules [was Re: [GIT PATCH] more Driver core patches for 2.6.19] karderio
2006-12-16  2:55     ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-16  6:43       ` Willy Tarreau
2006-12-16 10:28         ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2006-12-16 10:50           ` Willy Tarreau
2006-12-16 11:09             ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2006-12-16 15:15           ` Gene Heskett
2006-12-17 11:04             ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2006-12-16 16:33           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-16 14:42         ` Theodore Tso
2006-12-16 16:30           ` Willy Tarreau
2006-12-16 20:23             ` Theodore Tso
2006-12-16 21:04               ` Willy Tarreau
2006-12-16 16:54           ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2006-12-16 16:28         ` Linus Torvalds [this message]
2006-12-16 16:49           ` Willy Tarreau
2006-12-16 17:20             ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-16 18:33               ` Dave Jones
2006-12-17  1:56                 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-12-17  3:06                   ` Adrian Bunk
2006-12-17 20:23                 ` Gerhard Mack
2006-12-21 19:39                 ` Pavel Machek
2006-12-18 21:04       ` karderio
2006-12-18 22:05         ` Theodore Tso
2006-12-18 22:11         ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-18 22:42           ` Scott Preece
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2006-12-22 11:48 Niklas Steinkamp
2006-12-18  2:43 Brendan Scott
2006-12-16 18:27 Ricardo Galli
2006-12-16 21:01 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-17  0:22   ` Ricardo Galli
2006-12-17  4:10     ` Theodore Tso
2006-12-13 19:52 [GIT PATCH] more Driver core patches for 2.6.19 Greg KH
2006-12-13 20:12 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-13 20:38   ` Michael K. Edwards
2006-12-13 21:02     ` Greg KH
2006-12-13 21:32       ` Martin Bligh
2006-12-13 21:47         ` Andrew Morton
2006-12-13 22:09           ` GPL only modules [was Re: [GIT PATCH] more Driver core patches for 2.6.19] Greg KH
2006-12-14  0:32             ` Greg KH
2006-12-14  0:43               ` Jonathan Corbet
2006-12-14  0:55                 ` Greg KH
2006-12-14  1:00                   ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-14  1:08                     ` Michael K. Edwards
2006-12-14  1:30                   ` Grzegorz Kulewski
2006-12-14  1:58                     ` Greg KH
2006-12-14  4:15                   ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-14  5:39                     ` Martin J. Bligh
2006-12-14  6:01                       ` Hua Zhong
2006-12-14 11:14                         ` Alan
2006-12-14 11:31                           ` Hans-Jürgen Koch
2006-12-14 12:42                             ` Alan
2006-12-14 12:54                               ` Hans-Jürgen Koch
2006-12-14 16:59                                 ` Greg KH
2006-12-14 18:26                                   ` Alan
2006-12-14 21:16                                     ` Greg KH
2006-12-14 12:55                               ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-12-14 13:10                                 ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-12-14 17:17                                   ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-12-17 10:54                                     ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2006-12-14  8:03                       ` James Morris
2006-12-14 15:39                         ` Adrian Bunk
2006-12-14 20:08                           ` David Schwartz
2006-12-15 14:05                             ` Paolo Ornati
2006-12-17 10:11                             ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2006-12-17 10:56                               ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2006-12-19 12:57                               ` Marek Wawrzyczny
2006-12-19 13:56                                 ` Diego Calleja
2006-12-19 16:46                                   ` Gene Heskett
2006-12-19 17:11                                     ` Bill Nottingham
2006-12-19 17:24                                       ` Gene Heskett
2006-12-19 17:13                                     ` Diego Calleja
2006-12-20  5:11                                 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-12-20 19:29                                   ` David Schwartz
2006-12-20 20:52                                     ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-12-20 21:10                                       ` alan
2006-12-21 15:34                                   ` Marek Wawrzyczny
2006-12-21 16:43                                     ` Horst H. von Brand
2006-12-21 19:28                                     ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-12-24  3:11                                       ` Horst H. von Brand
2006-12-20  4:27                               ` Steven Rostedt
2006-12-14 13:07                       ` Dave Jones
2006-12-14 15:05                         ` Adrian Bunk
2006-12-14 16:11                           ` Dave Jones
2006-12-14 16:31                             ` Olivier Galibert
2006-12-14 15:36                         ` Martin J. Bligh
2006-12-14 17:20                         ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-12-14 14:12                       ` Ben Collins
2006-12-14 15:10                         ` James Courtier-Dutton
2006-12-14 16:09                           ` Dave Jones
2006-12-14 16:36                           ` Ben Collins
2006-12-14 17:34                         ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-12-14 19:29                         ` Michael Buesch
2006-12-14 20:19                           ` Ben Collins
2006-12-14  7:24                     ` Jeffrey V. Merkey
2006-12-14  8:21                     ` David Woodhouse
2006-12-14 11:25                       ` Alan
2006-12-14 14:53                       ` Theodore Tso
2006-12-14 16:52                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-14 17:33                         ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-12-14 18:01                           ` Martin J. Bligh
2006-12-14 18:12                             ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-12-14 18:37                               ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-14 18:30                                 ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-12-14  9:34                     ` James Courtier-Dutton
2006-12-24 11:57                       ` Mark Hounschell
2006-12-24 13:22                         ` Sean
2006-12-24 14:42                           ` Mark Hounschell
2006-12-14 10:49                     ` Xavier Bestel
2006-12-14 13:04                     ` Dave Jones
2006-12-14 13:46                     ` Ben Collins
2006-12-14 17:21                       ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-12-14 17:49                         ` Ben Collins
2006-12-14 15:46                     ` Jeff Garzik
2006-12-14 17:03                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-14 17:08                         ` Chris Wedgwood
2006-12-14 17:38                           ` Christoph Hellwig
2006-12-14 17:52                             ` Chris Wedgwood
2006-12-14 18:09                               ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-12-14 18:15                               ` Eric Sandeen
2006-12-14 18:39                                 ` Chris Wedgwood
2006-12-14 18:51                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-14 19:42                                   ` Scott Preece
2006-12-14 19:34                                     ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-12-15 10:13                                       ` Eduard Bloch
2006-12-15 17:44                                       ` Dave Neuer
2006-12-18 10:55                                       ` Eric W. Biederman
2006-12-18 17:05                                         ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-12-14 19:49                                     ` Hua Zhong
2006-12-17 10:57                             ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2006-12-14 16:17                     ` Adrian Bunk
2006-12-14 16:33                       ` Alan
2006-12-14 16:54                         ` Adrian Bunk
2006-12-14 17:17                         ` Theodore Tso
2006-12-14 18:18                           ` Alan
2006-12-14 19:51                           ` Adrian Bunk
2006-12-21 15:38                             ` Pavel Machek
2006-12-23 11:24                               ` Adrian Bunk
2006-12-23 21:36                                 ` Pavel Machek
2006-12-24  1:07                                   ` Adrian Bunk
2006-12-14  5:10                   ` Bill Nottingham
2006-12-14  8:48                     ` Greg KH
2006-12-14 14:02                       ` Rik van Riel
2006-12-14 15:42                         ` Chris Friesen
2006-12-14 15:47                         ` Alan
2006-12-14 15:48                           ` Jeff Garzik
2006-12-14 22:21                             ` Dave Airlie
2006-12-14 22:26                               ` Michael Buesch
2006-12-14 22:39                                 ` Dave Airlie
2006-12-14 22:45                                   ` Michael Buesch
2006-12-14 19:32                         ` Bill Nottingham
2006-12-14  5:58                   ` Nigel Cunningham
2006-12-14  7:54                   ` David Schwartz
2006-12-14  8:21                   ` David Woodhouse
2006-12-14 10:36                 ` Alan
2006-12-14 14:57                   ` Adrian Bunk
2006-12-24 14:27               ` Pavel Machek
2006-12-24 19:59                 ` Dmitry Torokhov

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